First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

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SteveHGraham
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby SteveHGraham » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:11 pm

Seems like women get stuck with revolvers all the time. I would never advise anyone to use one for self-defense.
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BadDog
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby BadDog » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:23 pm

I would have to disagree on that point. There are trade offs to be sure, but in the final tally I would never recommend an automatic to most of the a average joes (women or men) I know for self defense.

Edited to fix another typo. Looking back through my posts, it's amazing how many wrong words are there, presumably a combination of fumble-fingers and auto-correct. I generally do at least a scan back over trying to address such things, but months later I see many glaring word selection errors. I tend to type at a very high rate, which makes it easy to make the initial mistakes, and with larger volume harder to scan. I think I need to figure out how to turn off auto-correct but keep spell check markers...
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warmstrong1955
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby warmstrong1955 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:10 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:Seems like women get stuck with revolvers all the time. I would never advise anyone to use one for self-defense.


I'm with Russ. :)

As a guy who learned handgun skills with a revolver, shooting police qualifiers, and PPC, you are wrong. I learned semi-auto's later.
I suggest you read 'No Second Place Winner', by Bill Jordan. (I still have & use some of his holsters)
Auto-loaders have advantages, but so do revolvers, and when it comes down to it, it's a matter of training, and 'Quick Draw McGraw'.....hence the title of the book. ;)
I have plenty of both. Which I pick, depends on the social work I am involved in at the time.....

And as far as women....ya'll don't want to be pickin' on my wife, whether she's packin' her Combat Commander, or her Model 19 RB. :shock: Either will produce the same results.

;)
Bill
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SteveHGraham
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby SteveHGraham » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:59 pm

Since you opened the can...

Telling women (or anyone) to use outmoded revolvers is totally backward advice in 2017. Revolvers are heavy, they're hard to fire, they're much harder to aim, second-shot target acquisition is so slow it's essentially impossible, they hold much less ammunition (made worse by the need to keep one chamber empty), and the ballistics for .38 Special are total crap. They're also no more reliable than a modern semiauto. A quality 9mm (i.e. not Kel-Tec) is an infinitely superior weapon, and it's way easier to use.

Revolvers also shoot hot gas, powder, and bits of metal out from their sides, which is not a great thing to have to worry about when you're in a hurry.

I've taught women to shoot, and they never had any problems with semiautos. Why should they? They're not chimpanzees. Women fly fighter jets and do brain surgery.

Gun people love myths and legends, and the "Women need revolvers" myth is one of the hardest to kill. It's like the "Pump shotguns are best for home defense" nonsense. I get so tired of that one. Yes, I want a low-rate-of-fire gun that loses the target completely after every single shot, and I really want to be limited to six rounds. I also want a gun I can cycle incorrectly and jam when I need it most. Where do I sign up for that? I use a 30-round CZ 858 for home defense. "What about overpenetration?" Another sacred cow. I'll worry about overpenetration when the cops worry about it.

Gun "experts" are some of the biggest spreaders of manure. As long as some fossil like Jeff Cooper said it when he was crossing the Atlantic with Columbus, it must be true. I don't pay any attention, when they go against common sense. I carry a 10mm with my own loads everywhere I go, with 11 rounds including one in the pipe. I carry it in my pocket, which everyone says you're not supposed to do. I can have it out and in a criminal's face in under one second, which is nearly impossible with the belt holsters and fanny packs the "experts" recommend. I have some revolvers, and I love them, but they're just toys. I wouldn't dream of picking one up when the burglar alarm goes off.

The 10mm is great. I settled on it after reading the report the FBI put out in response to the Miami shootout. It makes a big hole, the muzzle energy is great, it will go clean through a fat burglar (necessary because frangible pistol rounds are a joke), and I put rounds through a golf-ball-sized hole with it all day.

I'm thinking some day I may switch to a 22 magnum. Thirty shots in a pistol, with very little recoil...that would be a great thing for a person who can actually shoot. Not great for cops and other people who can barely hit the paper. Seems like you never see a cop who can shoot, but they always have those cool tactical pants, steroid triceps, and $250 sunglasses.

I'm sure I've insulted everyone's pet firearm in this post. Now I'll go put my Nomex suit on. :D
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BadDog
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby BadDog » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:35 pm

I'm going to turn over a new leaf and avoid the bait on this one, except to say your statement about carrying on an open chamber alone basically kills your position for me. Discussing further is pointless...

And I'll also add that I'm not averse to semi-auto handguns, I own several. Along with long guns, bullpups, and an auto plus a pump shotgun.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby warmstrong1955 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:43 pm

BadDog wrote:I'm going to turn over a new leaf and avoid the bait on this one, except to say your statement about carrying on an open chamber alone basically kills your position for me.


Agreed! A good plan.
Just to add....open chamber....who does that?

:)
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BadDog
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby BadDog » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:47 pm

Nobody carrying anything resembling a modern quality revolver...
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SteveHGraham
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby SteveHGraham » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:32 pm

This is going exactly as I expected.

Sorry if I'm not up to speed on the correct way to carry quaint and ineffective range toys. I never had any interest in carrying one, for the same reason I don't carry a musket, so I never had any reason to research it or question the advice my grandfather gave me when I was in elementary school.

There are so many great reasons not to carry a revolver, I never really had to think about the issue of open chambers, so like the people who always recommend revolvers for women, I repeated what I was told without thinking.

I do know about transfer bars. I got a lesson about them from a prosecutor in my grandfather's courtroom when I was about ten. He told the jury about them; I think the defendant--a distant relation of mine--was claiming his .357 fell and blew his nagging wife's skull open all by itself. The perp got convicted, and his dad immediately walked over to the detective who arrested him and said he was going to kill him, so he got arrested, too. Great entertainment for a kid.

To get back to why revolvers are inferior, even if you get to carry five rounds (wow) instead of four, you're still driving a stagecoach when you could have an M3. Most people miss at close range even if they fire repeatedly, so hoping one of five underpowered, outmoded .38 slugs fired from a gun with a tiny sight radius will hit the target in a magical spot that incapacitates is pretty darned optimistic. Nobody has ever said, "Boy, I wish I hadn't brought so much ammunition to that gunfight."

Even a skinny Glock will hold seven rounds, and you can reload it in three or four seconds instead of being shot or raped after your five .38's miss.

In a related story, my great uncle shot himself off a Breathitt County, Kentucky, courthouse toilet with an Italian revolver that didn't have a transfer bar. Dropped the gun and put a round into his leg. I don't know whether they sent him home from jury duty.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby warmstrong1955 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:35 pm

I don't need seven rounds.
Just one.
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby BigDumbDinosaur » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:53 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:Seems like women get stuck with revolvers all the time. I would never advise anyone to use one for self-defense.

I learned how to properly shoot in the military, and that included achieving accurate fire with a .38 caliber revolver. In years past, I carried an S&W Model 10 as a defensive weapon. I no longer own any firearms and doubt that I will any time soon, but I wouldn't at all feel inadequately armed carrying another S&W .38.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby warmstrong1955 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:34 am

Agree, that's why we use .38 Specials for practice, not for carry. Economical to reload practice rounds with cast bullets.
I have a dozen different K frame Smith's in .22, .38 & .357, and a couple N frames in .44 mag.
If we carry a revolver, it's usually a .357.
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Re: First tune-up: Charter Arms 38 Undercover

Postby PeteH » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:51 am

Boy! This one turned acrimonious and confrontational in record time. Personally, I'd never count on an autoloader unless I was carrying another gun to back IT up.

For the record, when my wife got her CHP, she tried several autoloaders; as it happens, all Rugers - an LCP, an LC9, and my Mk 3. She doesn't have the hand strength to cock any of them, no matter which way she tried it. However, she was able to cock (and DA cycle) my Charter Undercover, and to place all 5 in the boiler room, rapid-fire. So we bought her a .38 Charter Pink Lady.

And at this point I'm signing off this thread. It's ceased to be helpful.
Pete in NJ


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