.22LR Suppressor build

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chrismunn
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.22LR Suppressor build

Post by chrismunn » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:52 pm

Hi guys, I'm going to be starting a suppressor build sometime in the future and was just wondering if anybody here has any experience building one? Of course I'll have to file a Form 1 after I get my trust written up but that's another subject on its own


This one's going to be for my Smith and Wesson M&P15/22 and won't include any titanium! :lol:

I've been scouring all the forums and watching all the YouTube vids trying to study up and it all seems pretty straight forward (if you're not paying too close attention!). But I know there's way more to it than what you see at first glance. Which is why I'm building for the .22lr as opposed to a .30 caliber rifle. (A lot of complex information on silencertalk.com that I'm sure is very important when it comes to the higher pressures of the larger calibers)

In any case, I'm thinking stainless tube and end caps with aluminum baffles. not sure which style of baffles I'll use but it'll likely be something easy like a 60 degree cone? I'd like to go with a 12" tube and I'm not opposed to paying an extra $200 to cut that barrel length way down. not sure on the diameter but I'm thinking I'd like for it to fit inside the factory hand guard on the rifle? I may change my mind on that factory hand guard later tho since it's polymer and kind of chinsy? I think when I measured I determined that 1.75" would fit just fine? I'm not entirely concerned with weight, the rifle is abnormally light as it is and to be honest I don't really care for it. Just looking for a fun build and a super quiet and cool looking suppressor. Anyway, this ain't no battle rifle! ;) It's what my daughters use and it's typically at benchrest and bagged so...

In reality I'd like to do an integral on that rifle but that's way out of my understanding at this point so if anybody has any insight on that I'm all ears!

Just looking for ideas and any advice that anbody cares to share at this point? Still planning and day dreaming

chrismunn
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by chrismunn » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:56 pm

And I now realize that the title is very deceptive and looks like you're going to open the thread to see an awesome suppressor build. Sorry about that, I promise I'll post pics of the build when it happens! (In like 10 months after I turn in my paperwork and the ATF gets thru with it)

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Dave_C
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by Dave_C » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:03 pm

Comment removed by me to avoid confusion, it wasn't helping!

Dave C.
Last edited by Dave_C on Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.

chrismunn
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by chrismunn » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:44 pm

I know there was a recent law change but I'm not worried about it. A few more hoops to jump thru but whatever. An individual building a form1 suppressor isn't the same as an FFL manufacturing machine guns. Anyways, if something happens and there's some mix up on my part regarding the law it's only Federal prison time! ... lol!

Ranb
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by Ranb » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:09 pm

chrismunn wrote:Hi guys, I'm going to be starting a suppressor build sometime in the future and was just wondering if anybody here has any experience building one? Of course I'll have to file a Form 1 after I get my trust written up but that's another subject on its own
I've been making silencers as a hobby since 2002; 15 made so far.
This one's going to be for my Smith and Wesson M&P15/22 and won't include any titanium! :lol:
You certainly don't need titanium for most cans.
I've been scouring all the forums and watching all the YouTube vids trying to study up and it all seems pretty straight forward (if you're not paying too close attention!). But I know there's way more to it than what you see at first glance. Which is why I'm building for the .22lr as opposed to a .30 caliber rifle.
I learned how to operate my lathe by making my first silencer for a 300 blackout back in 2002. It is very easy, the 2nd time you do it.
In any case, I'm thinking stainless tube and end caps with aluminum baffles. not sure which style of baffles I'll use but it'll likely be something easy like a 60 degree cone?
60 degree cone or K's will work fine on the 22lr. In fact just about any thin baffle stack stuffed into a 1x6 inch tube will work well on any 22lr.
I'd like to go with a 12" tube and I'm not opposed to paying an extra $200 to cut that barrel length way down. not sure on the diameter but I'm thinking I'd like for it to fit inside the factory hand guard on the rifle?
12" for any 22lr silencer is way too long. Anything longer than six inches is just a waste of length and weight in my opinion. A six inch can will make the muzzle blast of any semi-auto rifle seem less noisy than the action; especially from the shooter's position.
I may change my mind on that factory hand guard later tho since it's polymer and kind of chinsy? I think when I measured I determined that 1.75" would fit just fine? I'm not entirely concerned with weight, the rifle is abnormally light as it is and to be honest I don't really care for it. Just looking for a fun build and a super quiet and cool looking suppressor. Anyway, this ain't no battle rifle! ;) It's what my daughters use and it's typically at benchrest and bagged so...
A guy I know made a 1x6 inch can for his dedicated four inch barreled AR-15 upper (lower is registered SBR) which hides mostly inside of the hand guard. It is very light and sounds great; a 16" barrel will sound even less noisy as the longer barrel sucks out much more heat from the powder before the bullet reaches the muzzle.
In reality I'd like to do an integral on that rifle but that's way out of my understanding at this point so if anybody has any insight on that I'm all ears!
My advice is to make all 22 caliber silencers thread on with 1/2-28 threads and all 30 caliber silencers with 5/8-24 threads. All of mine are thread on, even the one I made for my Ruger MKii which resembles a longer version of the Amphibian.

One thing I've learned is that I will never ever again make another silencer with aluminum parts or with threaded end caps. If used on a rim fire gun they need to come apart for cleaning because cleaning with peroxide and vinegar destroys the aluminum. If aluminum is used for baffles on a center fire can, the blast baffle will be eroded away in a few hundred rounds with the rest going several thousand rounds later. I used aluminum for my 223 can with a 4130 blast baffle. The blast baffle is still perfect, the aluminum ones are eaten up and the can is rather loud now.

Threaded end caps will eventually get stuck in place which will keeps you from cleaning the baffles except with chemicals.

Center fire cans are for the most part self cleaning. They gain a few grams of weight then the high pressure keeps additional gunk form building up. The 22lr lacks the pressure to keep a can gunk free which is why they need to be cleaned.

In the future all of my silencers will be all stainless with welded end caps. I can chemically clean the ones used with rimfire ammo. The local hazmat facility accept the poisonous lead acetate for free disposal.
Just looking for ideas and any advice that anbody cares to share at this point? Still planning and day dreaming
Go all stainless with welded caps, you will not regret it like aluminum cans with threaded caps.

Buy a TiG machine to weld the stainless parts, a MiG machine is crap compared to TiG. Weld the baffles together to increase strength.

I used a piece of scrap tubing cut from the same piece as the one used for the body as the jig to hold the baffles together. A half inch hole provided access for the torch to tack them in place prior to welding them together.

Most of the advice you find in the Silencersmithing section of SilencerTalk is good to go. You can check out my videos on YouTube at the Ranb40 channel or e-mail me for advice. Good luck.
chrismunn wrote:And I now realize that the title is very deceptive and looks like you're going to open the thread to see an awesome suppressor build. Sorry about that, I promise I'll post pics of the build when it happens! (In like 10 months after I turn in my paperwork and the ATF gets thru with it)
Not that long anymore. In 2014 two of my AFT form 1's got approved in three weeks. Last year it took three months.

Ranb

chrismunn
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by chrismunn » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:13 pm

Thanks!

Ranb
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by Ranb » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:26 pm

Dave_C wrote:Well.....

You may not get much participation as anyone who can build these is keeping pretty quite these days for obvious reasons.
Not so in my opinion. Check out various gun boards for talk on making silencers. There are a few like RimFireCentral.com who will ban anyone for giving detailed info on silencer making or TheFirearmsForum.com which protects those who bash silencer makers, but for the most part the gun forum community has embraced silencer makers. As for myself I hold an annual Silencer Shoot at a range in Bremerton WA so people can shoot suppressed firearms free of charge (plus range fee) which are provided by myself and any manufacturers who show up.
The ATF likes to land on unsuspecting individuals who think they are complying with the law only to find out there are new laws they never knew about.
Can you give us an example a form 1 maker getting into trouble with the ATF? I'm not aware of anyone who made a registered silencer who got into trouble with the ATF. I know that some people think they can make repairs that involve parts replacement without paying an additional $200 tax, but I've yet to hear of anyone needing the services of a lawyer for doing so.
NYCCNC on you tube has some of the best video I've seen on a totally quite 22 LR suppressor! Is it really worth the risk?
Absolutely worth the risk! That risk would be near zero by the way. A silencer is one of the nicest accessories a person can attach to a firearm.
I just changed over to sub sonic rounds, re-sighted all my 22 rifles (except 1), did some range flags to learn mu hold over and shoot all I want. The wife inside the house never hears me shoot.
A 22lr with a 16" barrel and subsonic ammo is till going to be about 140 decibels at least; a pistol (a P-22) is going to be over 160 decibels. A good silencer will bring the noise down by 30 decibels or more. Some old data is here; http://www.silencertalk.com/results.htm While a 22lr with a 24" barrel will bring the noise down to hearing safe levels (<140 dB for short duration impulse noise), the shorter barrels will still allow enough noise out to damage your hearing even if it is not painful.

For example the bolt closing on a 10/22 will be about 110 decibels, doesn't sound like it though. Have to use the right meter; one with a 20 micro-second response time or faster. The ones from the mall or on a smart phone are useless.

A silencer will dramatically lower the noise of 22lr subsonic ammo.

Ranb
Last edited by Ranb on Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Ranb
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by Ranb » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:36 pm

chrismunn wrote:I know there was a recent law change but I'm not worried about it. A few more hoops to jump thru but whatever. An individual building a form1 suppressor isn't the same as an FFL manufacturing machine guns. Anyways, if something happens and there's some mix up on my part regarding the law it's only Federal prison time! ... lol!
41p went into effect a few weeks ago. Instead of obtaining the local sheriff's signature on the ATF form 1, a copy of it is sent to his or her office instead. The newest form was revised in May 2016 here; https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/ ... 1/download Ensure you print it out double sided and in duplicate or the ATF will reject the application. You can also order fingerprint cards from the ATF's website. The ATF is required by federal law to consider each application they receive. I've never heard of the denying any application they received that was filled out correctly.

If you ever looked at the old forms, you would have seen a place for the sheriff to sign. Now it just says to identify your CLEO and send them a copy of the form. So there are no more hoops for the individual maker, but instead one less MAJOR hoop!

There is no longer any advantage to using a trust to own a silencer unless you want multiple persons to be able to possess/use it while you are not present. Since they can be gifted to your heirs tax-free on the ATF form 5, you don't really need a trust for that unless you make it a perpetual trust. Trustees must fill out an additional form and send it it along with their mugs shots and fingerprints which can be a pain if there are many trustees in the trust.

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Dave_C
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by Dave_C » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:56 am

Comment removed by me (Aug 1, 2016) It wasn't helping the original post.

Dave C.
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I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.

Ranb
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by Ranb » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:10 am

I'd still like to know more about what information you have about silencer owners/makers getting in trouble. I've never really seen that much even though I've been looking for examples. Everything I've found was related to people making unregistered silencers which has been illegal since 1934 in the USA. I heard of one other example but it was related to a licensed manufacturer and not an unlicensed maker like myself. He didn't engrave his new silencers soon enough to keep the ATF happy.

Should I assume that you have never purchased a gun from a dealer? Unless you've only purchased or received used and/or non-NFA firearms then you are on a list somewhere.

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Dave_C
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by Dave_C » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:33 am

Comment removed by me (Aug 1, 2016)

Thread was becoming argumentative and not helping OP!

Dave C.
Last edited by Dave_C on Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.

Ranb
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Re: .22LR Suppressor build

Post by Ranb » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:08 pm

Dave_C wrote:I will just say this: There are cases of law abiding persons who lost legally owned and permitted guns who were traveling through another state who used their local laws to take private property for law abiding citizens.
I'd heard of things like that happening. But since you commented in a thread devoted to making registered silencers I just assumed you had relevant information on actual problems associated with that activity. I see that you do not.

In a section of the forum devoted to firearms I had not expected to find anyone who would try discourage any lawful activity by suggesting it was risky. I on the other hand will continue to openly and enthusiastically exercise my 2nd amendment rights and encourage others to do so.

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