Hardening a gunbox

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steamin10
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by steamin10 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:55 am

Many years ago I helped build a friends custom house. In it were a couple of features that I thought were pretty smart. They were trojan horse type features that looked like something they werent. As he was a Gunkey and sold amunitions and arms, he had a fire door that looked like a coat closet at the end of a short bedroom hall. Beyond that door was a small room about closet sized that was a gun safe all its own. The door was a 40 inch door firecode with pins in the hinge side, so as to engage the steel frame when swung closed, It had a nondescript lock and deadbolt on the face and was quite pretty with an oak plywood veneer over the coded fire door. If you did not thiink about it it was just an odd door in the center of the house arranged between bedrooms and bath. The door filled the end of the hall opening so there was zero room to get a crow bar into the frame, and work on the door.

In the walkway to the garage you went past an electric service panel of a larger type. It was fake. It was only a box that had a couple of small shelves in it and enough room for a handgun and some spare ammo and clips to his 1911. I walked past it many times without realizing that its purpose was ready concealed firepower. Yes it was hidden in plain sight, but better than a sock drawer. It got me thinking that there are more ways to skin a cat.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
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mikeehlert
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by mikeehlert » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:37 pm

Here in lovely California we have an additional problem. It is now illegal to have a gun that is not secured.
In a recent case a kid talked to friends about bringing a gun to school. They told the school who told the cops who got a warrant. Dad went to jail (felony?) as he had unsecured guns (3) that the kid could get to as well as ammunition. Those cheap HF sheet metal things would have saved him a bunch.
Talking about the rest of the CA gun laws is beyond this threads scope and would probably get me in trouble with the moderators. Safe to say that any weapon I may or may not have is safely and legally stored.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by SteveHGraham » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:11 pm

When I was a kid, my grandfather had a wooden display cabinet in his bedroom. Getting into it at will was not a problem. I think he left the key in it. He had a room at the end of his house for his other guns. They were kept in a personalized open gun rack which I rescued after my grandparents died.

After a certain age, which was probably about 13, whenever I wanted to shoot, I grabbed a gun and went out back. Before I reached the age where I was allowed to do that, it didn't occur to me to take the guns outside. Even my rotten cousin, who was such a brat he had to be chased through the house naked every time bath day rolled around, didn't take them out.

Life has changed.

I do wish I had been informed about hearing protection.

California is pretty wild. I saw a video the other day in which a Texas cop needed 11 rounds to stop a fool who started shooting during a traffic stop. In California, that's all you get, and to reach 11, you have to carry one in the pipe. Of course, the police are our masters, so they are exempted.

Made me reconsider the wisdom of carrying a 10-round pistol. I used to think a 30-round magazine in my bedroom gun was good insurance, but now I realize how fast you can miss 30 times.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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BadDog
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by BadDog » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:39 pm

My father and grandfather had those nice gun cases. Just a furniture grade wood cabinet with some scroll work and bas relief hunting scenes carved into it. The glass allowed clear visibility of what was inside, and was "secured" by a simple tab-cylinder lock with some large window expanded metal sections screwed behind the plate glass (not tempered!). If you really wanted in and didn't have the key but didn't want to damage the case, you could remove 4 (or was it 6?) wood screws to take the door off at the hinges. But as stated, the key was often found in the cylinder, and if not was on top of the case. Ammo was similarly secured in the bottom, accessed with the same key. And as also described, none of us young-uns ever even thought about getting into it without permission, and I hunted with those guns (22LR) supervised from the time I was maybe 8 or 9, pretty much at will with any gun I was approved to use by the time I was 12 or so. I don't recall exactly when, but I owned a 30-30 Winchester and often hunted with Grandpa's 30.06 and 12GA buck/slug before I was 14. I know that because I mostly lost interest in hunting by 15 when I bought and built a 70 340 Cuda from a junkyard ($75 delivered on flat bed with no motor, trans, or wheels). It was also about that time that other problematic all consuming interests really began to dominate and eclipse everything else.

But then again with a little cleanup and background editing I could probably have been in a Norman Rockwell painting. I lived in a single wide trailer on a one lane dirt road at the foot of Hawk Pride mountain within close walking distance of Dry Creek where I learned to fish with my grandmother after hand cutting a cane pole. Hunting often started by walking out the back door and off into the woods before dawn, or using my Z50 to get back out on the powerlines 10 miles or so back through the woods, and I was taught safe gun use from my earliest days. We moved from there when I entered 3rd grade, and we literally didn't even lock the doors. I had no concept of theft or criminals until years later. Even in high school, particularly in deer season, the parking lot at school was loaded with high powered rifles and shot guns, any clearly visible in the back window of pickups from going hunting before sun up and then going on to school. A friend even brought a field stripped M1 into his locker as a sort of "show and tell" in shop class. Nobody even blinked with him walking through the halls. My how things have changed.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by warmstrong1955 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:52 pm

On the first day of quail season, there were dozens of pick-up trucks in the high school parking lot with shotguns hanging on the racks in the back windows. And maybe a rifle or forty-seven too.
Bell rang...we were ready....and out of there....

Imagine that now-a-days....
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by SteveHGraham » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:57 pm

Now they will arrest your 6-year-old for aiming a Pop Tart at another kid.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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steamin10
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by steamin10 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:19 pm

I dunno why , but it seems the idea of having an heirloom gun vs. a military spec weapon has changed over my lifetime with all the stories of hi-way snipers and random shootings, that desentisize the values previously held. I dunno, is it vid games, for warfare, or Grand Theft auto ? Do we really admire the crooks?

When I abandoned my wharehouse, after a gunfight, I gave up my .45 Star PD for a p-89 Ruger with 15 rounds. More firepower, but is your situation worth it? I found myself facing 2 morons with wheel guns and only 6 in the handle, 2nd clip in the truck. (oops). I survived with the $50 in my pocket, but lost $40 G when I let the wharehouse go.
I am satisfied.
Recent motions have put me in mind of protection again, as it seems someone is always watching.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

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BadDog
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by BadDog » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:55 pm

Much the same reasoning behind why I acquired and often carry an SR9C with the extended mag.

Not the actual violence, but I think a lot of it is the video games and action movies. No idea where it originated, but a lot of us have been calling the last few decades trend "tacticool". They want something that looks like an action hero's weapon, but no idea how to actually apply in any practical way, with no real practice using the weapon, and likely fumbling badly if ever called on to need it. My bullpup deviates quite a bit from mainstream tacticool, but I found out recently why some younger folks who've seen it are really wowed by it. Apparently it looks almost exactly like the hero's "battle rifle" in Halo. It's just a modified M17S with weaver/picatinny rails for various accessories. Usually just a fore grip (extrusion gets HOT), a flashlight/laser, fixed sights, and an EOTech (sp) sight that I got at the recommendation of my multi-deployment Marine Master Sargent CQCB expert (trainer now) ex-SIL. But in its standard truck mount "expedition" configuration, it does look very similar to that gun from Halo (of course, many bullpups do). More so before I removed the top handle and "flat topped" it to eliminate stowage and egress issues caused by that handle (and resulting high mount for the EOTech)

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by SteveHGraham » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:02 pm

Do you trust that thing? I'm not familiar with it. I keep a Vz58 by the bed with the stock folded. I am paranoid about jamming and so forth, so I went for dependability instead of optimal ergonomics.

Come to think of it, dependability is one of the many reasons I didn't choose an AR. Every time I look at one, I think of the stories--fables, for all I know--of American soldiers using scrounged AK-47's because they didn't trust the M16. I don't know how reliable the AR-15 is, but it seems like everyone trusts the AK and the Vz58.

I remember seeing a contractor on Fox News, talking about Iraq. I suppose he could afford an M4 or M16 or whatever if he wanted one, but he had a full-auto AK. Not a great testimony for Mr. Stoner's invention!

I got a folding AK for the truck. Inexpensive and hopefully very discouraging to any road rager who comes stomping up to my window with a Kel-Tec.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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BadDog
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by BadDog » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:36 pm

I'm not a huge fan of AKs either. Not the least of which is the problematic optics. But for reliably putting rounds down range cheap and dependable, particularly if thinking in terms of suppressive fire (as that contractor probably was), sure hard to beat. Not to mention picking up ammo dropped from enemy combatants, which if things are going the way you want, shouldn't be hard to come by.

Anyway, yes, I trust that M17S very well. When I first got it, I couldn't get through a 30 round magazine without a FTF using premium ammo. Very unhappy. But it was not one of Bushmasters premium productions, and the internals showed it. With only 2 cycles of cleanup and polishing, total of an hour or less, this thing runs like a sewing machine. I've gone through around 800 rounds in one session, magazine after magazine reloaded with an auto loader. Had it running so hot that it was getting uncomfortable, somewhat like holding your trucks exhaust manifold up to your cheek. Anyway, it never missed a beat running ~800 rounds of bulk gun show reloads, and reliably cycles at least as fast as I can. It's also a gas piston system substantially advanced from but related to the typical AR-15. I've heard it referred to as an "AR-18" system, but don't know enough to comment on that. I know that where a standard direct impingement AR runs as dirty as my chipped Duramax exhaust on "kill", even that day with all that shooting, my M17 was still surprisingly clean inside. And I've never had a part failure at somewhere north of 5000 rounds sent down range. I'm satisfied.

That said, I've got a Mosy 500 long magazine (8 round) Cruiser with pistol grip and forward flashlight beside my mattress. And a pair of 357 Magnum wheel guns hidden but readily accessible in other parts of the house (beside compact flashlights). And the SR9C isn't ever far away since it's my main carry, equipped with mini-combo laser and light. I'm a bit paranoid about seeing what I need to shoot, and all have momentary buttons so I can activate only at need. And laugh if you must, but I've even gone through dry runs with my wife how to deal with something should I not be home. She's a darn good shot too, and carries a 357 Magnum SP101 with Hogue grips. And she knows how to find, ready and fire every one of my weapons.

M17, SR9C, 357M wheel guns, and the Mosy 500, all of my weapons choices are predicated on efficiency of purpose, simplicity and dependability (along with readily available cheap amo). If it can't work reliably with anything from premium behind the counter ammo to cheap gun show bulk can reloads (or Wolf, etc), I simply won't own it long. I'm no Olympic shooter, so sub moa accuracy and < 5" groups at 100+ yds isn't my main goal (and I'm simply not that good), but some of my friends who have skills and care about such have been impressed with my M17S. In general it will do better on a bipod than most of their (non comp) ARs, presumably due to the substantially longer tensioned barrel?
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by SteveHGraham » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:37 pm

I like short weapons for indoors. I am too cheap to go for an SBR or a pricey bullpup, however.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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BadDog
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Re: Hardening a gunbox

Post by BadDog » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:11 pm

IIRC, I got my M17S for $700 new in the (poly gun case) box from Bushmaster with (as I recall 3 magazines). I fixed the flaky feed problem, and added mounting rails (and accessories) while removing the fixed carry handle, added some cooling improvements, but other than that, it's pretty much stock. Take out the EOTech and I've got probably less than $900 (certainly less than $1k) in it including the roughly dozen 30 round magazines (most mil surplus and a few windowed magpulls).

Speaking of all the gun related things I'm not a fan of, include SBRs. Sometimes neat, and I may own one someday as long as it's not based on an AR (what's the point with that buffer tube?). But my bullpup is shorter than the shortest carbines with a (IIRC) 26" 1:9 barrel). Not only can't beat it without going to a handgun indoors, but the reason I selected it was to have something with some range and easy/fast egress from the driver's seat of a truck (actually a buggy at the time). Getting back in and clipped into place is likewise a breeze. If I don't need it, I've always got my side arm(s).
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