The Home Machinist!

conversion projects? If so, I would like to exchange information/ideas with you. I took the Tech. college course,l converting double shotguns to double rifles, given by Mr. Brown, who has now written a book on the process. Best, Jack

depending upon the age of the doulbe shotgun, and the pressure of the intended rifle cartridge, you could be getting ready to blow off the head of the shooter. Many old doubles are pretty weak, really, and many of the elephant gun loads are fierce indeed. Beware.

Do you really think, after taking course in building these things, that I would do dumb things? Most people have ideas about such conversions that are simply wrong; based on few or no facts. Too many guys are way too anxius to give their opinions about somethign they obviously know nothing about, gunwork and otherwise. Fact is, we have successfully converted numerous double shotguns, to double rifles, without a problem, if things are done right! We have chambered converted 16 gauge to .450 nitro (thought we now use nothing smaller than 12 gauge, AND ONLY specific types of shotgun frames that indeed have adequate strength for the job at hand; from that caliber down to 7 and 8 mm Mauser--quite a lot of calibers. By the way, the so-called elephant loads are much lower pressure than most guys think. Would you believe a .577 on a 10 ga. mag. frame? Probably not, but believe, it was done just fine, thank you. Best, Jack

Hi Jack.I've thought about this a time or two.The quickest way would be to make sub caliber tubes but regulating them would be tough.One other way is to remove the original barrels from the monoblock ( if equiped) or boring out the barrels and installing everthing again from the monoblock forward.The best way would be to make a new set of barrels including a new lug and ribs to make a multi barrel set.
Most shotguns are marginal with a cartridge that develops more pressure than a black powder cartridge.The lower the pressure,the longer it will stay "on face".Also,you will probably have to bush the firing pins down to a smaller size for a center fire high pressure cartridge.
My ideas on converting a double gun to a double rifle involved a .410 to a 22 Hornet(or maybe 25-35 Winchester).It would be about usless but interesting none the less.After I pulled that off,I wanted to build a larger one in 30-40 Krag or 45-70 US Gov't. on twenty and twelve gauge frames.These are low enough pressure and the rimmed cartridges will make extraction easier.There is no need for a rimless cartridge in a double rifle.I may eventually find the time for these and the Gatling gun I want to build.
Feel free to email if you want to talk some more,Robert.

Jack,you posted again while I was thinking and typing.It looks like you've got this pretty well thought out.Yes those old Elephant loads were fairly low pressure.The ones that were developed for Nitro were still low pressure.The ones I'd worry about are the belted magnums and really hot 30-06 and 308 Win etc on an older frame.Most of the conversions (and factory built guns) for modern cartridge are done on fairly new double guns so the quaility of metalurgy and strength is there to start with.
I hope I didn't offend you with my previous post.I almost deleted it after I read your second post.Keep in mind that many other people that are less informed are reading this also.I always try to keep that in mind when I answer someone so the reply won't mislead them.
As for the book and course you took,what is the name of the book(I'd like a copy) and where was the course taught?I try to learn everthing I can about gunsmithing as it crosses over into other gun problems and my real job too.
I have a Stevens 20 gauge that I'm trying to resurect from the wall.It was in really bad shape.(Off face and off the water table!)It has slightly short chambers for a 2&3/4 twenty.I guess it was a little short for plastic shells or someone thought that since a 3" shell would fit it was okay to shoot.I've started on the repairs but haven't decided which way to fix the off face and off table condition.After I get it safe,it is going to be a test mule for recoil reduction and stock fit before I redo the wood and metal.It may one day have a spare short stock for ladies use and a set of rifle barrels as I mentioned in my earlier post.I'm doing it for fun and expierence as it will never be worth the money spent on it much less the time but I'd be proud of the result and that is impoprtant too.
If you want to email the offer still stands,Robert.

uhhuh. and WHAT, if anything, do you do about the problem of the 2 barrels POI being way off from each other, at a mere 50m? When the double rifles are built from scratch, the barrrels are testfired, soldered a bit futher, testfired, againk soldered a bit further, etc. By the time you do all this with a double shotgun, you will have to charge just as much as a used double rifle, so why would anyone buy your cobbled up pc? Shotgun trigger pulls suck, and you still have to add sights, etc.

I like a challenge myself.If I ever get 'round to it,the gun will be for me as I couldn't sell it for a profit.That's the advantage of doing something for a hobby.It was fun,it was a challenge I overcame,nobody else has one,I gained experience from it,etc,etc.
As for regulating the poi,that is part of the job.Trigger pulls can be worked just as card shooters have rifle like triggers on their guns.Sights aren't a problem either.
I haven't priced used double rifles lately but the price was going up fast a few years ago.Now they are out of my leauge again so if I have one it will likely be something I made for fun.
Robert.

I have one in the shop to do now, just waiting on the liners. It's a 12 and I am making it into a 50-100-450. The shotgun is a late model Fox with a single triger. Would like to know how you regulated the barrels for POI. Was planning on using three screws at the muzzle of each barrel to adjust and then solder in place.

John,I'll have to look in some of my books for the exact way the English builders do this.It may be a few days before I can dig them out and read up on the subject.If Irc,they do it with wedges but screws should work imho.I was hoping JSullivan would answer this as he has real teaching on the subject instead of just reading about it.Perhaps he'll get back to this thread soon.
Robert.

Are all these conversions "side by side" or has anyone done one in "over-under" style? Maybe a rifle/shotgun combo like the old Savage models.

Hi Al.
I personally don't have an interest in an O/U double rifle.However that's mo and one of the European shotgun builders makes a O/U double rifle.I don't see any reason that a conversion on a good quaility O/U wouldn't work and it should be a lot easier to regulate the barrels.
As for regulation,I'm still looking for the book that has that info in it.I looked in a few last night but couldn't find it in the one I thought it was in.I'll keep looking as I'll need to know if and when I get time to tackle this myself.
Robert.

Eons ago. Elmer Keith mentioned in one of his articles that the muzzles were clamped together with a wedge between them and the man doing the regulating shot it, adjusting the wedge until the barrels were both shooting to the same spot and then they were soldered together. I won't swear that this is correct as my memory of what I read 40 years ago is fading somewhat.

That sounds right by my memory.The English makers are probably still doing it that way too.
Robert.

Jack,

Where did you get your "training" or guidance on doing this type of conversion?

Thanks!

Mike in TN!

I guess he got sidetracked or just went elsewhere.I had asked him about the book and teaching he refered to in his first post as I'd really like to buy and read that book.Most of my gun knowledge comes that way as I don't have a mentor for gun repair to ask.I use a lot of the things I learn from gun books and general machining books,home shop machinist magazines and forums like this one in my automotive machine business.Guess I'll have to search the 'net when I get a chance.
Robert.