Maybe a stupid question.
When does a barrel become a gun?
1) riflling the barrel
2) chambering it for a custom cartage
3) adding a receiver
4) adding a trigger
5) tragger guard
6) firing pin add
7) only when you first shoot it the first time?
I use to make black power rifles with 30 06 barrels when I was a teen. Still have a single action western looking pistol. Hack saw, file, grinder, drill press, tap and dies, a spring I'd find.
When a gun is born
Re: When a gun is born
Vern2,
I think the technical discription is when it is attached to a reciever. That is ATF's idea anyway.
Dave C.
I think the technical discription is when it is attached to a reciever. That is ATF's idea anyway.
Dave C.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
Re: When a gun is born
I'm with Dr. Dave---when a Receiver is attached. Correct me if I am wrong, but if I understand the ATF corectly, a Muzzle Loader is technically not a "GUN."
Al Messer
"One nation, under God"
"One nation, under God"
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gregvasale
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:32 am
- Location: webster, ma
Re: When a gun is born
I think when the serial# is put on. I once worked for a manufacturer, and the serial number was put on the item somewhat late in the process. This was in 1995 or so. I don't know if things have changed much since then.
Re: When a gun is born
Guys,
We are getting confused. Anyone can buy a barrel! You have to have an FFL in the USA to Purchase a reciever. The reciever is the part that has the S# on it. When you combine a barrel with a reciever you now have a "Gun". That is what the ATF says anyway. Me personally, I need a trigger and some other stuff but ATF says that if I buy a barrel and attach it to a reciever then I have to sell it as a "gun" even if it is not finished.
Black powder guns have a different classifacation. They come under what is called C&R (Curio and relics) and you can get a C&R licenses real easy.
Barrels do have S# on them and I have seen custom makers stamp 4 digits and their initials on them to be in complican with ATF. Still not a "Gun" even though it has a S# on it.
Hope that helps!
Dave C.
We are getting confused. Anyone can buy a barrel! You have to have an FFL in the USA to Purchase a reciever. The reciever is the part that has the S# on it. When you combine a barrel with a reciever you now have a "Gun". That is what the ATF says anyway. Me personally, I need a trigger and some other stuff but ATF says that if I buy a barrel and attach it to a reciever then I have to sell it as a "gun" even if it is not finished.
Black powder guns have a different classifacation. They come under what is called C&R (Curio and relics) and you can get a C&R licenses real easy.
Barrels do have S# on them and I have seen custom makers stamp 4 digits and their initials on them to be in complican with ATF. Still not a "Gun" even though it has a S# on it.
Hope that helps!
Dave C.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
Re: When a gun is born
Muzzle loaders are legally designated as antiques not firearms. Even replica muzzleloaders. Firearms that use self contained cartridges and were mfg. prior to Jan 1, 1899 are not firearms they are also legally antiques. And require no Federal Lic. of any type to own, sell, transport etc. Federally anyway. Your mileage may vary according to Tards in individual state capitols.
A barrel is not a firearm even if attached to a reciever and requires no Sr. #. Only a reciever is a firearm if it is more than 80% complete. It is simply a piece of metal or plastic until it gets to the 80% point. Which is determined by ATF and at which time it is required to have a serial number if it is SOLD. You can make a Firearm for your own personal use and no serialization is required.
A C&R license is for Collectors of C&R firearms. C&R is designated any firearm over 50 yr old. Which is not a machine gun, etc which would make it fall under other ATF regulations.
Prior to GCA 68 there were no legal provisions requiring a firearm to be serialized and many were not.
A barrel is not a firearm even if attached to a reciever and requires no Sr. #. Only a reciever is a firearm if it is more than 80% complete. It is simply a piece of metal or plastic until it gets to the 80% point. Which is determined by ATF and at which time it is required to have a serial number if it is SOLD. You can make a Firearm for your own personal use and no serialization is required.
A C&R license is for Collectors of C&R firearms. C&R is designated any firearm over 50 yr old. Which is not a machine gun, etc which would make it fall under other ATF regulations.
Prior to GCA 68 there were no legal provisions requiring a firearm to be serialized and many were not.
Re: When a gun is born
pacrat, thanks!
I think the top gun has spoken.
I'm interested in building a mussel loader. Maybe a flintlock. I would like to build all the metal parts. Maybe buy a good hex or oct barrel and semi finished full stock. Have a friend that custom tools barrels. He will do the rifling. I have built one lock by hand, with file, grinder, drill press, tap, dies, and wit as a teenager. That same friend bought the lock I built.
I think the top gun has spoken.
I'm interested in building a mussel loader. Maybe a flintlock. I would like to build all the metal parts. Maybe buy a good hex or oct barrel and semi finished full stock. Have a friend that custom tools barrels. He will do the rifling. I have built one lock by hand, with file, grinder, drill press, tap, dies, and wit as a teenager. That same friend bought the lock I built.
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hammermill
- Posts: 2938
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:43 pm
- Location: pendleton or
Re: When a gun is born
pacrat is on track with the 80 percent complete rule of thumb in the usa other countrys are differient and your state or local may even add a few extra twists.
Re: When a gun is born
Vern2,
Yep, PACRAT said it best. I did not add the 80% part to my explanation but I was tryng to give a short answer given the 7 possible choices that you listed. Of those 7 choices, adding a barrel to a receiver was the closest choice.
I have further problems based on the City, State and Country in which I live. You would think I was some sort of Felon for trying to work with any type of gun. I have further restrictions on even black powder guns! What ever happended to just having fun with a firearm?
Good luck with your desire to make your own gun. Just don't try to sell it with no S# on it.
Dave C.
Yep, PACRAT said it best. I did not add the 80% part to my explanation but I was tryng to give a short answer given the 7 possible choices that you listed. Of those 7 choices, adding a barrel to a receiver was the closest choice.
I have further problems based on the City, State and Country in which I live. You would think I was some sort of Felon for trying to work with any type of gun. I have further restrictions on even black powder guns! What ever happended to just having fun with a firearm?
Good luck with your desire to make your own gun. Just don't try to sell it with no S# on it.
Dave C.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
Re: When a gun is born
For sure, not looking for a job! I'm looking for something I made myself, to hang on the fireplace in living room. My wife doesn't like dead animals hanging around.
The bigest thing I've ever built at the time was a duplex dog house. I had the ambition at 24 and started , what turned out as a 6 year project. I hammered all the nails in my house. 30 and moved in, no house payment. I'm still here after starting project 41 years ago. It's 2200 square ft, 4 bed, 2.5 acres.
Check out my home and stuff in link below.
The bigest thing I've ever built at the time was a duplex dog house. I had the ambition at 24 and started , what turned out as a 6 year project. I hammered all the nails in my house. 30 and moved in, no house payment. I'm still here after starting project 41 years ago. It's 2200 square ft, 4 bed, 2.5 acres.
Check out my home and stuff in link below.
Re: When a gun is born
DrDavo,
Geeesh, sounds like you live in Commyfornia not Mo. I'm from back that'away. Reeds Spring Jct down south of ya a bit. Have a cuz who's a gunsmith in Rogersville, just east of you. I have aunts, uncles, and dozens of cousins from Springfield down to the Arky border. But haven't been back since 65. I don't miss the ticks, chiggers, ice storms, or humidity one bit.
Geeesh, sounds like you live in Commyfornia not Mo. I'm from back that'away. Reeds Spring Jct down south of ya a bit. Have a cuz who's a gunsmith in Rogersville, just east of you. I have aunts, uncles, and dozens of cousins from Springfield down to the Arky border. But haven't been back since 65. I don't miss the ticks, chiggers, ice storms, or humidity one bit.