That lathe made barrel

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jpfalt
Posts: 982
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:55 pm

Re: That lathe made barrel

Post by jpfalt »

The wife's father and I spent a lot of time on muzzle loaders. Our favorites were from barrels by an outfit named Bondini. He had .58 cal and mine was .54. We cast our own slugs, Lee REAL (rifling engraved at loading) and after casting weighed them all. When weighing, you would get a maximum weight and then a tail going in the lighter direction. Anything that wasn't max weight went back into the melting pot. The .58 slug had four rings that were smaller diameter at the back of the slug and were progressively larger going to the front of the slug. The rear ring would lightly engage the rifling. The next ring forward would just fill the rifling and the front ring would shave lead on all the lands and grooves. We used lubricant, but no patch.

The barrels were both 12 groove, kind of like the Marlin microgroove that was popular at the time.

We usually started by casting some REAL slugs and slugged the barrel. In both cases we had to shave the mold to get rings on the slugs that would fully engage the rifling. We made our own mold cherries to do the shaving.

With weighed 3F charges we consistently got 1" groups at 100 yards. For target work, I used 55 grains and he used 78. Below that load, the patterns would form side to side and above that weight the pattern would change to up and down. One thing we found was that the trajectory of the slug came up and crossed the line of sight at about 50 yards and came back down and crossed the line of sight at 100 yards. We were able to knock down bowling pins at 400 yards. For target work and plinking, we lubricated with Crisco. For hunting we lubricated with a mix of lubriplate grease and beeswax.

For hunting I used 120 grains of 3F behind a 320 grain REAL slug. About half of the deer I have taken were brought down with the.54. One was taken with a Remington 700BDL in 25-06 and all the rest were taken with a Marlin 30-30. They all work just fine.

I heard of one 10 year old who took a moose with a .22 pellet gun. The story goes that he was on a camping trip and the moose walked into the camp. The kid hit it in the eye and it went into the brain and killed it instantly.

My wife's grandfather used to go "shopping" in the Oregon woods with a .22. Whatever he got was cooked for dinner and was identified as "special beef". Times were hard and special beef was cheap.

I still have a barrel and flintlock to make up a long tom .54 rifle and a myrtlewood blank to make it a full stock Pennsylvania pattern. I've also been having fun making up miniature muzzle loading rifles from used .22 rimfire barrels and my own percussion locks. The load is 5 grains of 4F and uses a .22 pellet gun slug.
jpfalt
Posts: 982
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:55 pm

Re: That lathe made barrel

Post by jpfalt »

redneckalbertan wrote:
hammermill wrote:redneck i should mention that even the pro,s do not come out dead on all the time thier answer is to start with larger diameter blanks after drilling, put between centers and turn to profile. i memory serves they start with a 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch blank.
That I did know! If I am understanding correctly .018 of runout means the hole is off centre .009. Regardless, i though that was very impressive.

The offset at one end of the barrel is normal. I usually built from octagonal blanks and the approach taken was to put the offset end on the breechplug end of the barrel and orient it in the stock so that the offset is as close to down as possible. That way the muzzle was centered and the bore pitched up from the back of the barrel to the front. The sights would then line up well on the centerline of the barrel and there was less fiddling with the sights to get proper elevation.
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alphawolf45
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:57 am
Location: South Central Arkansas

Re: That lathe made barrel

Post by alphawolf45 »

Homebrew .357
That rifling attachment to your lathe looks impressive.. Bet It is mighty satisfying using your own built project to build another home brewed project...I could enjoy that too.

I was back to reading about barrel making this week out of frustration of not yet getting the barrel I've had back ordered for months...But then found a suitable barrel in stock somewhere else and ordered it so I am again out of the mood to tackle barrel making for myself.. :lol:
homebrew .357
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:32 am

Re: That lathe made barrel

Post by homebrew .357 »

Well I`m no maths king, I just connected the three gearboxes and was looking for a 1-36" twist, but on my lathe it came out at 1-33", good enough I thought, that will do it.
And ,yes I could try and get a larger bike sprocket that runs along the bike chain rail, it can be lowerd down, so could maybe get a twist of 1-48.
Anyway this new barrel I`m making is being reamed in my lathe, I`m useing an adjustable reamer for this, yes I know you carn`t do this, you may be right!, but it`s what I have and have to reame out 0.010" to get .429". Will have to do it very slowly and with plenty of cutting fluid, as you can see from the pics. The reamer rod is clamped in with leather so if it grabs it will turn and not stuff up the bore!. Just doing this to see if I can make a better one!, if it`s any good I`ll sell it, nobody makes B/Powder barrels over here. :lol: Homebrew357.
Attachments
Reamer going in
Reamer going in
Outlet end to catch oil and bits.
Outlet end to catch oil and bits.
The setup in my long suffering lathe.
The setup in my long suffering lathe.
Reamer clamped in my x/y vice, with cutting fluid pumping through.
Reamer clamped in my x/y vice, with cutting fluid pumping through.
homebrew .357
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:32 am

Re: That lathe made barrel

Post by homebrew .357 »

Hi, As I said I would post some pic`s of what this barrel on the gun is shooting like, so had a benchrest shoot at the range on saturday 16/11/13.
I shot P R B, with 45grs of 3f and 170gr bullet on the first target with 60grs 3f`s and 70grs on the last one. The three groups all seam to have a flyer, could be me! The bullets show the group is a bit to the left and low so will correct the sights for that and see how it goes next time . But it`s not to bad, I measured from the outer edge of the holes for the size of the groups, I think that`s right, :roll: O K m homebrew.357.
Attachments
Bullet, 60grs, 54yards.
Bullet, 60grs, 54yards.
Bullet, 70grs, 54yrds.
Bullet, 70grs, 54yrds.
P R B 45grs 54yrd`s. all benchrest.
P R B 45grs 54yrd`s. all benchrest.
redneckalbertan
Posts: 1274
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:39 am
Location: South Central Alberta

Re: That lathe made barrel

Post by redneckalbertan »

I measure center to center not outside to outside, I thought that was how it was done. Anyways... Your flyer, did you clean the barrel between strings? If so was the flyer always the first shot?
homebrew .357
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:32 am

Re: That lathe made barrel

Post by homebrew .357 »

OK, Here`s what I did, the barrel is clean for the first shot. Powder in then thin card wad, lubed 270gr bullet, .445"dia loaded down onto card and powder, shoot. Wet patch wipe bore, same load again. All ways wet patch clean bore between shoots. The bullets are smaller at .445" with the bore now at .450" so thats why I use a thin card on the powder for a better seal?,I also have some felt wads, but not sure to use theres.
The bullets are from my own mold , a copy of the R E A L bullet mold. Just have to see what this barrel likes, :wink: Cheers, Homebrew.357.
Attachments
Powder, Card, Bullets.
Powder, Card, Bullets.
real bullet mold
real bullet mold
redneckalbertan
Posts: 1274
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:39 am
Location: South Central Alberta

Re: That lathe made barrel

Post by redneckalbertan »

I don't have any first hand knowledge or experience with muzzle stuffers, only what I have read and heard from others. PLEASE correct me if I am wrong, but the bullets seem loose to me. I remember reading literature for a muzzle stuffer and it saying that the rifling was removed from the last little bit of their barrel to facilitate easier starting of them bullet, as well as to help starting the bullet straight and centred in the rifling.

My experience with lead bullets comes from watching my father-in-law reload .45acp for me. He has done more than his share of reloading over his decades with a reloading press (pistol and rifle cartridges) and I remember talking with him about sizing and Him saying that He liked the bullets sized slightly over bore diameter for his .45.

So... After looking for about a half hour through the reloading manuals that I have (including Lyman's 3rd and 4th cast bullet books), I have discovered that none of them have any info about muzzle stuffers. I did try putting a bullet and sabot in the wolf muzzle stuffer that I have sitting in my safe (got it for my birthday from a buddy who didnt use it anymore and have yet to make the time to shoot it.) and it looks like that is slightly oversized compared to the bore dia. But I realize that is comparing apples to oranges.

I remember reading that a hollow base bullet with a softer alloy used allows for a smaller bullet to be used facilitating easier loading The thin walls at the back of the base of the bullet would expand on ignition to seal the bore from escaping gases helping to reduce leading of the bore via flame cutting.
homebrew .357
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:32 am

Re: That lathe made barrel

Post by homebrew .357 »

Hi Guys, Here`s a pic of my 50m target with p/rb, 50grs 3f, first shot 3 smaller r/balls just to get rid of them, on target 10 oclock. Then 4 shots aiming at 6 oclock on target and no it`s no tack driver, but the more I shoot it will help polish the bore, and it`s minet of deer , but I`ll have wait a bit before I can take it hunting, have just had my second hip op, it`s a tempery one for4/6 months till I get the mark 2 model , So catcha guys, :D Homebrew.357.
Attachments
P1010614.JPG
P1010615.JPG
PeteH
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Tidewater Virginia, USA

Re: That lathe made barrel

Post by PeteH »

Nice !! That ought to put some Bambi in the freezer...
Pete in NJ
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