Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Topical Discussions include anything pertaining to Gunsmithing.

Moderators: Harold_V, JackF, GeorgeGaskill

mclarenross
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:04 pm

Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by mclarenross » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:00 pm

So a guy who lives up the street from me brought this old rifle by for me to figure out what it is. It was in his grandfathers safe when he died 35 years ago. It looks a lot like a French Berthier rifle except this one is single shot and has quite a different bolt head, with no locking lugs at all, so Im pretty sure that is not what it is. There are no original markings on the gun but it does have some gunsmith marks. It says on the left side "K.A. MIRAKIAN . GUNMAKER . 1915 . MAY . 22 . PHILA . PA . U.S.A" My Googling of the name came up with nothing. These words are stamped into the steel and are 1915 professionally done. There is also writing in some other language I cannot identify on the front ring and side in front of the other lettering. My feeling is that it is middle-eastern of some sort but I cant pin it closer than that. Maybe North African? If someone has an idea please tell me. Underneath the name on the side is stamped "32 Winchester Special" but Im waiting on some Cerrosafe to confirm that. That caliber fits with the time period for a conversion from some 8mm cartridge. The gun was sporterized, probably by KA Mirakian, and Im pretty sure that the only thing original is the receiver and barrel. Stock smells a lot like black walnut and is so covered with lacquer or shellac that it is cracking. If anyone can tell me what this gun is so I can delve deeper into this thing and tell him what it is good for and if we can do something about the hack job that is the bolt.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Lance Corporal of Marines

hammermill
Posts: 2938
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:43 pm
Location: pendleton or

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by hammermill » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:20 pm

I will guess at a early moshen nagant,it seems to be missing a extractor????
Given the. Straight bolt and rear knob

redneckalbertan
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:39 am
Location: South Central Alberta

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by redneckalbertan » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:52 pm

Sorry I can't help you with the ID of the rifle, but that looks to be a beautifully figured stock! Much nicer than the utility grade fence post that is slapped on a lot of the rifles now.

mclarenross
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:04 pm

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by mclarenross » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:43 pm

I see the similarities to a Mosin but I cant find any single shot Mosins. This thing has a completely solid bottom and no locking lugs at all in the front.

The piece of wood on this gun is beautiful, its just so covered in crap its sad. If the metal is salvageable he wants to strip the stock and refinish it cause it has some beautiful lines.
Lance Corporal of Marines

redneckalbertan
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:39 am
Location: South Central Alberta

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by redneckalbertan » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:16 pm

If He is going to refinish the gun I would recomend tung oil as I am a fan on the finish. I have yet to refinish a gun stock with it but have used it on other wood projects and is a beautiful matte finish that enhances the look of the grain and is a good water proofing agent. I have a .22 cooey in the safe that is marked for just that when I get a round to it!

User avatar
GeorgeGaskill
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:15 am
Location: Chino [Flats], Ca SSR

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by GeorgeGaskill » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:00 pm

The gunsmith's name is typical Armenian and although I haven't seen any Armenian writing since 1972, it is my guess that the non-English writing is Armenian. Since Armenia was part of the Russian empire in those days, some Russian rifle is a logical choice.

JackF
Posts: 1551
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:56 pm
Location: Caldwell, Idaho

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by JackF » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:22 pm

Maybe I'm all wet but it appears the lugs may be in the receiver for the recesses in the bolt to lock on to? :?

Jack.

PeteH
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Northern New Jersey, USA

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by PeteH » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:02 pm

For a low pressure round like .32, that big rectangular block under the bolt handle probably would be locking lug enough.

It would be interesting to get some sense of what this started life as.

Clearly, the smith was taking some care when he built it -- note the engraving in the sixth picture.
Pete in NJ

mclarenross
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:04 pm

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by mclarenross » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:30 pm

Interesting leads guys. Thanks so much. Ill look into the Armenian alphabet and see where it leads.
Lance Corporal of Marines

hammermill
Posts: 2938
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:43 pm
Location: pendleton or

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by hammermill » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:06 pm

one thing keep me wondering the bolt stop on the side hints of mauser, the lack of front lugs hints franken gun,

does the rcvr have lugs broached into it, for what i am seeing besides the missing parts the only lug a present is the bolt, with the 32 special being a 40,000 psi round. here is a complete moshen bolt photo
Attachments
moshen bolt.jpg

mclarenross
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:04 pm

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by mclarenross » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:57 pm

Hammermill, your on the same page as I am. There are no rails or broaching at all on the bore of the receiver. As far as I can tell the only lug at all is the bolt handle, which is soldered onto the body so i dont trust it at all.
Lance Corporal of Marines

PeteH
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Northern New Jersey, USA

Re: Mystery rifle a guy brought me

Post by PeteH » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:38 am

Had the ammo manufacturers gone over to smokeless powder by the time this was built (1915), or was black powder still the norm ? That might influence how much pressure you'd need to withstand.
Pete in NJ

Post Reply