BSA Miniature Martini question

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earlgo
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:38 am
Location: NE Ohio

BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by earlgo » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:55 am

Has anyone fitted a barrel and extractor to a miniature martini? This has been one of the most frustrating projects that has come along in quite a spell.
This has been my procedure:
1) Thread the barrel and cut the shank to length
2) Torque (crush fit) the barrel several times to the action so the extractor location can be marked. Remember this is a plate that covers half of the end of the barrel. I use 50 ft-# on the 3/4-14 thread.
3) Make a witness mark at the barrel/receiver joint and mark the extractor location.
4) Remove the barrel and machine out the extractor cut.
5) Re-install the barrel trying to hit the witness mark accurately.
6) Figure out where the extractor cut needs to be 'adjusted'.
7) Remove the barrel and file the extractor cut.
8 ) Re-install the barrel trying to hit the witness mark accurately.
9) Reassemble the action with extractor in place and mark what needs to be 'adjusted'
10) Repeat 7 thru 9 until it fits properly. Some minor fitting can be done to the top of the extractor.

Is there a simpler way to do this job?

--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

golfpin

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by golfpin » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:59 am

Hi Earlgo
I am not a gunsmith but did a build quite a few years back when Silhouete shooting took off in this country. This was before Thompson contenders etc were available so the Hot rodders of the shooting community got going saw some amazing efforts .303 British built to Silhouette regs, but I digress. I fitted a .30 Mauser barrel to what we referred to as the "Thinwall/ Thickwall " BSA action I used the latter, Martini Action" this was built by BSA in .22 caliber and used for target shooting 25 yards. I Chambered this to accept 30.30 Win cartridge and then went through all the steps you mention. Painful yes but I think you have covered it all. Would mention that the trigger pull was never very good [part of the martini design perhaps] but the more work done on the trigger mechanism sear etc the better the pull but the worse the safety aspect would not pass the then Silhouette "drop" test. Don,t think there is an easy/other way around this one still enjoy that 1 shot lever action. Just a small aside that might be of interest to gun nuts because of the Anglo Boer War of 1899-1902 there were of course a lot of military arms about, Mauser etc [cousin of mine still has our grandfathers piece] back to the point the venerable Martini issued to the Brits became a popular conversion to 16 guage shot gun I would imagine the barrel grooves were rusted/neglected etc and the physical size of the action made the conversion quite simple, I think, I stand corrected if any of the experts want to comment hope I I haven,t overstepped the mark. Cheers golfpin

earlgo
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:38 am
Location: NE Ohio

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by earlgo » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:19 am

Golfpin, thanks.

*IIRC the Greener company made a 12 gage trap gun with the Martini action sometime in the late '60s. It was a really nice shooting piece.

*I re-barreled and re-stocked a Westley Richards miniature Martini in 218 Mashburn Bee, but I don't remember having this much problem fitting the extractor. Of course it was a horseshoe shaped affair that came in from both sides of the chamber and I may not have been so fussy then.

*On the plate extractor for the BSA, how did you handle the re-cutting of the rim recess and partial chamber? In a Win '85 etc. you can run the chamber reamer into the barreled action and clean up things, but there is no access in the BSA with the sub-frame, holding the extractor, in place. (The cleaning rod hole is in the action only, as you know.)

--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

golfpin

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by golfpin » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:52 am

Hi Earglo and thank you for the interest. I must confess you have got me, I cannot recall how it was tackled you are of course quite right. I can only hide behind fading memory [70] poor excuse I know but made worse by the fact that the other 2 friends involved have long left the country. Because of the very strict laws in this country only a registered gunsmith can do this kind of "work" So in order to get this project done I fitted the barrel and did the woodwork, no big deal but the chambering I had to hand over to a good friend a New Zealander, he did the chambering and the extractor etc then he would have to have submitted the weapon to the authorties for "poofing", stamping, all of course for licensing, and has subsequently gone back to NZ. The other friend bought the weapon from me and he too has left the country, I thought he may have pics of said gun. Will sleep on this but at the moment haven,t got a clue. The final work in terms of trigger pull [hence my comments] I did but how he got the "U" machined I do not know but on reflection I don,t think he charged me enough! Have you any thoughts as to how he might have achieved this? Wow now you have got me really thinking how was this done in the factory anyone any ideas? Got the old grey matter churning and have dug up an article written by an American gun/gun smithing authority by the name of Tommy Blish he tells of building a BSA actioned rifle in .444 Marlin, hoping this would prod my memory but no can,t get my head around this, I can only apologise and ask if someone out there can put me out of my misery and explain how this can be done even at factory level.
Cheers Golfpin

golfpin

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by golfpin » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:07 pm

I forgot to mention, this was 30 years ago!! memory is that bad I forget how long ago, was long ago!

earlgo
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:38 am
Location: NE Ohio

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by earlgo » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:10 pm

Golfpin, yes it was in 1971 that I did the WR Martini, equally long ago.
I am glad you reminded me of Tonny Bish's article, I vaguely remember it. I'll look for it on line as surely it is hiding somewhere. TBish's Home Gunsmithing Guide does not have it.
I looked at the NRA Gunsmithing Guide and that talked about converting the 310 to another cartridge and that is not the same extractor issue.
I'll look through Brownell's Gunsmith Kinks but I don't recall it being there, but memory is always faulty after 70.
I bought an original Parker Hale #7A from a club shooter in Ireland. Maybe I can ask him if anyone there has a suggestion.
Thanks for your suggestions.

--earlgo
This is the WR 218 MB stock. I hope I am able to make a similar one for the BSA
Image
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

golfpin

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by golfpin » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:15 am

Good Morning To u Earlgo,
It is is a magnificent spring morning here I hope u have the same there.
My source of ref is " Home gunsmithing Digest" by TL Bish and and Jack Lewis page 160.
With my curiosity and what is left of my ageing but roused mind, I am gong to see a friend of mine who has retired here in Port Alfred; he is a design/production engineer and brought a lot of his set up down here from the big City, i.e his production shop. At the peak of his career he had 28 large cnc,s running, doing mostly then Govt work, including making aircraft parts (Mirage fighter and various other military stuff] remember embargo,s sanctions. He might be able explain HOW or when in the production process that rebate is machined after the receiver is forged.
Hope this of interest to others and thanks for those photo,s of outstanding wood work, has always amazed me how the skill of the gunsmith is overlooked when it comes to the ability to combine working with steel and wood and turning it into an art form.
Have good day Golfpin.

earlgo
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:38 am
Location: NE Ohio

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by earlgo » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:46 am

Golfpin, we are commencing into fall here and the leaves are starting to turn. Still good weather though.

I totally missed the article in Bish's HGD even though I scanned the index. On page 161 it shows the horseshoe extractor that the bigger Martini used. Thanks for re-directing me.

I am now thinking that if the extractor is fitted to the barrel a witness mark could be made to locate it while assembled. The cutout on the extractor could be added to by TIG welding. Then the extractor could be clamped to the disassembled barrel and by careful fitting, made to match the chamber. Sounds easy to say, but there will be many unanticipated problems.

Thanks for the kind words, but I am not a working gunsmith, just trained at the Colorado School of Trades, in Denver, CO, USA.

--earlgo
Here is the chunk of wood that is slated for the BSA IF the chamber issue is sorted out.
Image
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

golfpin

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by golfpin » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:10 pm

Hi Earlgo,
am I to take it that that magnificent butt/cheek stock in one of the previous posts is your handywork?
If my assumption is correct ......... I am truly impressed. great piece of work , look forward to seeing the completed next effort. Will contact the aforementioned prod engineer to see if he can throw any light on the question of how that rebate is achieved in the manufacturing process, but you seem to have more than finger on the pulse of what is required.
I was last in the USA 1999 in Charlotte, Mooresville NC to be precise, went to the Hendricks motor sport facilty to make contact with a fellow South African who was head of R&R, we worked together some years previously in F1 motor sport, I mention this because to my delight I was taken through one of the build shops and I saw young men using what in sheet metal terms is called "The English Wheel" hand rolling body panels for A Nascar car. It was such an upliftment to see this craftsmanship is alive and well in the USA, so having said that keep up that great work look forward to seeing your completed project.
Cheers Golfpin

earlgo
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:38 am
Location: NE Ohio

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by earlgo » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:59 am

Golfpin, just looking at the projects presented in these forums and the questions asked assures one that craftsmanship is not dead anywhere.
Go to any Model Engineering Society website and it will blow you away what people can build in basements, garages, and shops.
http://www.modelengineeringsociety.com/photo1.htm

--earlgo
Here is a walnut classic Mauser 98 stock with blind magazine, shotgun trigger guard, Neidner grip and butt plate in 250 Savage (250-3000)
Image
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

golfpin

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by golfpin » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:48 am

Morning Earglo. Thnks for that great pic I have just succeed in losing for 2nd time a posting to you so before I throw this digital imbecile into the street [me and the PC I will wish all a better day] just to try and ease my frustrations what would u pay for good quality hachsaw blade . Thanks Cheers Golfpin

earlgo
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:38 am
Location: NE Ohio

Re: BSA Miniature Martini question

Post by earlgo » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:56 am

One Starrett Bi-Metal hack saw blade for a hand frame is US $2.30 + Shipping at MSC, for example.
http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Saw- ... 4294951433

At Home Depot
Milwaukee Model # 48-43-0610 Internet # 203116105
12 in. 18 TPI Hack Saw Blade (10-Pack) for US $14.99
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-12 ... /203116105

Hope today is better.

--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

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