Questions About Metal Thickness

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Harold_V
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by Harold_V »

Heh! TIG is anything but an unnecessary luxury. It offers the ability to weld pretty much anything that can be welded, and do it as well as it can be done.
Sure, you can get along without TIG----just as you can get along without electricity in general. Anyone here want to? One thing for sure, having TIG capability sure does make life a lot easier.

I do not consider myself a weldor, in spite of the fact that I took two years of training in the art. I have never done it for a living, but one thing I can tell you for sure. Buying my Lincoln 300/300 machine was one of the wisest decisions I ever made. It allows me to address all manner of welding projects, many of which I most likely would not have been capable of doing. I have used the TIG features more than the stick features, although I wouldn't want to be without either.

MIG? Certainly a wonderful addition to any shop---but unless one is involved in high volume welding, MIG is the one machine that can easily be ignored, as it is limited in capability. For example, can one weld titanium with MIG? Magnesium? I expect both would be possible with TIG. Can one braze with MIG? You can with TIG.

Contrasting points of view welcome, as are knowledgeable and experienced replies.

Harold
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10KPete
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by 10KPete »

Harold_V wrote:Heh! TIG is anything but an unnecessary luxury. It offers the ability to weld pretty much anything that can be welded, and do it as well as it can be done.
Sure, you can get along without TIG----just as you can get along without electricity in general. Anyone here want to? One thing for sure, having TIG capability sure does make life a lot easier.

I do not consider myself a weldor, in spite of the fact that I took two years of training in the art. I have never done it for a living, but one thing I can tell you for sure. Buying my Lincoln 300/300 machine was one of the wisest decisions I ever made. It allows me to address all manner of welding projects, many of which I most likely would not have been capable of doing. I have used the TIG features more than the stick features, although I wouldn't want to be without either.

MIG? Certainly a wonderful addition to any shop---but unless one is involved in high volume welding, MIG is the one machine that can easily be ignored, as it is limited in capability. For example, can one weld titanium with MIG? Magnesium? I expect both would be possible with TIG. Can one braze with MIG? You can with TIG.

Contrasting points of view welcome, as are knowledgeable and experienced replies.

Harold
What he said....
Pete
Just tryin'
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by warmstrong1955 »

I've heard ol' stick welding guys claim that MIG welding is crap....
And MIG guys that think stick welding guys are long since obsolete. Many and most of whom, don't know how to do it.
All methods, and very much including TIG, have their purpose.
All have their advantages....and disadvantages.
Often, opinions of many, are based on a lack of experience, since they haven't really tied something out of their normal routine of things....

Try it.....you'll like it.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2O7rZTBs7w

:lol:
Bill
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Steggy
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by Steggy »

warmstrong1955 wrote:I've heard ol' stick welding guys claim that MIG welding is crap....
And MIG guys that think stick welding guys are long since obsolete. Many and most of whom, don't know how to do it.
All methods, and very much including TIG, have their purpose.
All have their advantages....and disadvantages.
Often, opinions of many, are based on a lack of experience, since they haven't really tied something out of their normal routine of things....

Try it.....you'll like it.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2O7rZTBs7w

:lol:
Bill
I have worked professionally with the three major arc welding processes (SMA, GMA and GTA) and am all-to-familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of each.

SMA, aka "stick" welding, is the most popular process in use today, although seldom seen anymore in production environments. SMA is most useful in situations where welding conditions widely vary and set-ups must frequently change. SMA is often the best process to use in the field (e.g., pipeline welding) where local conditions may prevent other processes from being satisfactory. SMA weding is possible underwater, and using direct current and low-hydrogen electrodes, can produce X-ray quality welds in the hands of a skilled weldor. Conversely, the process can easily produce faulty welds due to slag inclusion, something that even the most skilled weldor will occasionally encounter. A necessary part of the process is removing slag from the finished weld.

GMA (aka MIG or MAG, depending on the shielding gas used) is the most widely used industrial welding process today and is readily adapted to robotic manufacturing. GMA was originally developed to weld non-ferrous metals; adaptation to production welding of steel was a later development that became practical with the introduction of carbon dioxide as a shielding gas. GMA is best used in situations in which many repetitive welds must be made and setup doesn't have to be changed very often. GMA welds, of course, are not vulnerable to slag inclusions, and due to the energy of the arc being concentrated in a very small area, the puddle solidifies very quickly, making out-of-position welds less difficult than with the SMA process. GMA in the hands of a skilled weldor can produce "pretty" welds that will pass X-ray and notch testing, provided an appropriate shielding gas is used. However, a marginally skilled weldor can produce attractive welds with little to no actual strength, due to insufficient or non-existent penetration. GMA is the fastest of all manual welding methods.

GTA (aka TIG or "heli-arc") can be described as the electrical equivalent of oxyacetylene welding, and is the most demanding of weldor skill of the three major processes. GTA was originally developed in the aircraft industry for welding magnesium components, following the development of the constant current power source and the concept of the inert welding atmosphere. GTA offers quite a bit of flexibility and can readily handle a lot of non-ferrous metals (e.g., bronze, which I has successfully welded—AC is required to weld most non-ferrous metals). It is the ideal process for welding austenitic stainless steels, as there tends to be less chromium carbide formation in the fusion zone. In the hands of a skilled weldor, GTA will produce X-ray quality welds. GTA is a slow process and a lot of heat propagation into the weldment—with vary negative effects—tends to occur due to that slowness. Also, of the three processes, it is generally the most dangerous from a radiation standpoint, with a very high level of UV being generated compared to the other processes.

Shielding gases are an interesting topic unto their own. Most of the welding I do these days is with mild or HSLA steel. CO2 is the most economical gas to use with GMA on those metals, but as it results in an aggressive arc, tends to produce a fair amount of spatter and smoke. 75/25 (a mixture of 75 percent argon and 25 percent CO2) produces a gentler arc and thus doesn't produce a lot of spatter and smoke. The welds with 75/25 also tend to be less rippled, especially when welding flat-hand. However, penetration is lower for a given welding voltage. It is possible to get acceptable stainless welds with 75/25, although tri-mix (which is almost like 75/25, but has 2 percent helium added) is preferred. These days, 75/25 is all I use with my GMA setup.
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GlennW
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by GlennW »

I certainly wouldn't consider a TIG machine an unnecessary extravagance. I learned to weld with one and have now owned the same machine for 45 years. I believe I've welded just about everything but titanium, but just haven't had a reason to yet.

I bought a MIG machine not too long after, still have it as well, but it is rarely used. I've never personally been a big fan of MIG, but I was in the chassis shop of a major NASCAR team, and buddy, those boys could weld!!

I would consider TIG to be the most suitable for a home shop due to it's versatility and cleanliness.
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by SteveHGraham »

Thanks for writing that up, BDD. I just hope someone who seems equally competent doesn't show up and say the exact opposite, because that would be pretty typical of what I go through when I try to learn the truth about tools.

Maybe a TIG wouldn't be a bad investment. It seems like the Chinese stuff gets better all the time, and the prices are still crazy cheap.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
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10KPete
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by 10KPete »

As a guy who's been welding for many decades, certified professional in all of those processes and a couple more, if I had to pick just one electric welding power supply for my home 'model' shop it would be a TIG unit. With that and a gas rig there wouldn't be anything that might come up in that environment I couldn't handle. Big steel? Stick of course as the power supply for the TIG is also a stick supply!!

TIG is just so great..... My two cents... :lol:

Pete
Just tryin'
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NP317
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by NP317 »

10KPete wrote:As a guy who's been welding for many decades, certified professional in all of those processes and a couple more, if I had to pick just one electric welding power supply for my home 'model' shop it would be a TIG unit. With that and a gas rig there wouldn't be anything that might come up in that environment I couldn't handle. Big steel? Stick of course as the power supply for the TIG is also a stick supply!!

TIG is just so great..... My two cents... :lol:

Pete
Having taught basic welding to Mechanical Engineering students, I agree that TIG is the most versatile welding technique. But it also requires the most practice to become good at using it. I am not a skilled TIG welder...

I assume Pete will be TIG welding his new boiler...
~RN
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by SteveHGraham »

Every so often I amass credit card points I have no idea what to do with, and I look for tools I "need." That's how I got the Fein Multimaster I've used like four times (cheaper knockoffs came out like 45 seconds after it arrived on my doorstep). Right now, I'm thinking TIG, a Kool Mist setup, an acetylene outfit, and a supplied-air rig. But I can't have all four!
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by warmstrong1955 »

SteveHGraham wrote:Every so often I amass credit card points I have no idea what to do with, and I look for tools I "need." That's how I got the Fein Multimaster I've used like four times (cheaper knockoffs came out like 45 seconds after it arrived on my doorstep). Right now, I'm thinking TIG, a Kool Mist setup, an acetylene outfit, and a supplied-air rig. But I can't have all four!
Well....welcome to the club!
I pick new toys by what I have coming up, or what to do. Latest case, was my recent purchase of a plasma cutter, something I've wanted, and could have used several times, for a while.
I bid some work, based on cutting the pieces & parts with a plasma cutter.
I got the job, came in lower than all, so I bought one.
All totaled, machine and spare consumables, if I figure my hourly rate at zero, plus the cost of materials, I was about 20 bucks ahead! Whooppee!
I'll use it again no doubt. Will it be a good investment, or a great investment..... only time will tell. I do think it will though.

Sometimes ya hit 'em, and sometimes ya don't.
Buy something, and a cheaper better one pops up right after you do....or it goes on sale for 50 bucks less while yours is still in transport....don't fret about it. I don't.
Take your best shot, and be OK with it!

:)
Bill
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by SteveHGraham »

There is nothing like a plasma cutter.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Questions About Metal Thickness

Post by warmstrong1955 »

I think you are missing my point Dinosaur.....

Purchasing a welder is just like purchasing any tool. You get what you need, what you think you will need more often.
Gotta remove a 1/2"-13 capscrew?
You could use a Crescent wrench.
Combination wrench will do it better.
Too tight?
You can throw on a cheater pipe, or, get a breaker bar & a socket.
Have 347 more to get loose?
I'd grab a high powered 1/2" drive air-impact wrench and a 6 point impact socket?

Same is true of welding machines.
Gonna weld on bucket lips on 980 Cat loaders.
A good MIG, and 1/16 dual shield will get 'er done.
Gonna do it on site, with no shop, and a 50% chance of rain, and the other 50% of the time it'll be snowing, and 100% of the time, it'll be blowin' 50 mile an hour?
Good stick machine and some 1/4" lo-hy would be a better route. And a couple of weed burners and a tarp.
Little stuff, small parts, thin parts....hobby parts....mild, stainless, aluminum....whatever....TIG is a better route.

I have all three, and I've been using all three for over 40 years.
I use all three, just like the Crescent wrench, or the impact....I pick the right tool for the job.
More often, I'm welding with my TIG. Not unnecessary, or extravagant....that's just the work I do more often.
Your results may vary.....go with what works for ya.

:)
Bill
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
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