I have a welding question.
I know very very little about welding. I have never used a welder.
I think I got the basic process figured out. And I would like to learn.
Maybe someday I will buy a welder.
If a person is welding a long rod of steel round stock,
the grounding clamp would be on the end that is being welded,
and a helper is holding on to the other end bare handed,
would that person feel and electrical shock.
Should the steel not be touched while welding.
I have wondered about this for a long time.
Thanks.
Pooh Bear
Electrical Danger ??
Moderator: Harold_V
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poohbear2767
- Posts: 90
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Re: Electrical Danger ??
I'm NOT an electrician, but my understanding is this:
If you get "in between" the current you will get zapped - be it welding or otherwise. That is to say that you somehow become part of the circuit - one way to do this is to hold the ground clamp and the stinger at the same time - yikes! However let's say you were leaning bare armed (bad idea for other reasons) against a steel bench while welding on it. Your likely hood of getting shocked is quite small because you had a fair amount of resistance so the current takes the least path and flows through the steel instead. Let's say you stand there bare footed - you may have now lowered your resistance to ground - getting more dangerous - let's say you stand in water - even less resistance - more danger, but you still have more resistane than the steel. so here's the rub - let's say your ground clamp falls off - NOW even though you have resistance you DO become a potential path to ground AKA human light bulb. Having an auxillary ground to your welding table is probably a pretty good idea. Another school of thought might be to fully isolate you and your table - thus the table and you would be at the same potential.
Bottom line any time you allow yourself to get "across" electrical components you open yourself to the risk of shock. thsi is why electricians often use only one hand on a screwdriver - taking a jolts across your hands (aka across your heart) is the worst.
I once heard of a welder electrocuting himself because he would hold the electrode in his mouth while connecting the stinger to it - aparently the flux was either damp (how would that happen in your mouth!)) or was partially missing - so now he's hot - all's he needed next was a path to ground - like the table he was leaning on.
Bottom line - do your self a favor and take soem beginner welding courses at your local community college - it'll be worth every penny. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif"%20alt="[/img]
If you get "in between" the current you will get zapped - be it welding or otherwise. That is to say that you somehow become part of the circuit - one way to do this is to hold the ground clamp and the stinger at the same time - yikes! However let's say you were leaning bare armed (bad idea for other reasons) against a steel bench while welding on it. Your likely hood of getting shocked is quite small because you had a fair amount of resistance so the current takes the least path and flows through the steel instead. Let's say you stand there bare footed - you may have now lowered your resistance to ground - getting more dangerous - let's say you stand in water - even less resistance - more danger, but you still have more resistane than the steel. so here's the rub - let's say your ground clamp falls off - NOW even though you have resistance you DO become a potential path to ground AKA human light bulb. Having an auxillary ground to your welding table is probably a pretty good idea. Another school of thought might be to fully isolate you and your table - thus the table and you would be at the same potential.
Bottom line any time you allow yourself to get "across" electrical components you open yourself to the risk of shock. thsi is why electricians often use only one hand on a screwdriver - taking a jolts across your hands (aka across your heart) is the worst.
I once heard of a welder electrocuting himself because he would hold the electrode in his mouth while connecting the stinger to it - aparently the flux was either damp (how would that happen in your mouth!)) or was partially missing - so now he's hot - all's he needed next was a path to ground - like the table he was leaning on.
Bottom line - do your self a favor and take soem beginner welding courses at your local community college - it'll be worth every penny. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif"%20alt="[/img]
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gmacoffline
Re: Electrical Danger ??
1. electricity is very dangerous if one does not fully understand its limitations, and their own.
2. electricity has no brains, it does not care if it stings you or fries you to a crisp. same for hydraulics- doesnt care if it crushes you or the part on which you are working. it doesnt obey signs or the laws of man or beast.
3. electricity has to behave by the rules of physics - it is a phenomenon of nature and simply cannot do any differently.
4. people not only dont have to behave by any rules, most times they dont even have to know about them, so its easy to mis-understand what electricity will or will not do or go.
5. it is possible to stand barehanded on an energized 345 thousand volt line and not be electrocuted. it is also possible to stand on solid ground ten feet from a 35 kilovolt line that is touching the ground- and be killed dead in an instant without ever touching the wire. if this seems impossible to persons, then they have a lot to learn about why it does what it does, because both are true.
6. welding energy is supplied by fairly low-voltage but high-current supplies. insulation resistance is broken down more easily by high voltage, but almost not at all by high current potential. if there is not enough voltage, or energy available to sustain current flow to cause a high enough current to flow through the circuit, then no damage will be done as the amount of power flow is very small ( 25kv of static energy shock when you shuffle your feet on the carpet may sting a bit but doesnt do damage, because the actual energy of the charge is quite small)
7. there is a lot of internet info available on electric shock effects on human bodies and how the body conducts this energy. reading it will give one a clearer picture of what they should expect to feel and what they never want to feel.
8. you can weld some things barehanded, and you can also be electrocuted by welding things barehanded, just depends on how the electrons decide they want to travel, how sweaty your palms are, how good the welder ground or ground isolation is, and lots of other things. its really a lot more complicated than can be explained in a post like this.
9. the well trained and safer welder is seldom the sorry former welder - (now crispy critter). be safe - follow all the rules and dont take any chance to prove that something can be done without harm. it might be perfectly done today with no ill effect and it could fry somebody tomorrow morning, small things can make that much difference. the rules are there for a reason and welding is always potentially dangerous in a lot of ways.
2. electricity has no brains, it does not care if it stings you or fries you to a crisp. same for hydraulics- doesnt care if it crushes you or the part on which you are working. it doesnt obey signs or the laws of man or beast.
3. electricity has to behave by the rules of physics - it is a phenomenon of nature and simply cannot do any differently.
4. people not only dont have to behave by any rules, most times they dont even have to know about them, so its easy to mis-understand what electricity will or will not do or go.
5. it is possible to stand barehanded on an energized 345 thousand volt line and not be electrocuted. it is also possible to stand on solid ground ten feet from a 35 kilovolt line that is touching the ground- and be killed dead in an instant without ever touching the wire. if this seems impossible to persons, then they have a lot to learn about why it does what it does, because both are true.
6. welding energy is supplied by fairly low-voltage but high-current supplies. insulation resistance is broken down more easily by high voltage, but almost not at all by high current potential. if there is not enough voltage, or energy available to sustain current flow to cause a high enough current to flow through the circuit, then no damage will be done as the amount of power flow is very small ( 25kv of static energy shock when you shuffle your feet on the carpet may sting a bit but doesnt do damage, because the actual energy of the charge is quite small)
7. there is a lot of internet info available on electric shock effects on human bodies and how the body conducts this energy. reading it will give one a clearer picture of what they should expect to feel and what they never want to feel.
8. you can weld some things barehanded, and you can also be electrocuted by welding things barehanded, just depends on how the electrons decide they want to travel, how sweaty your palms are, how good the welder ground or ground isolation is, and lots of other things. its really a lot more complicated than can be explained in a post like this.
9. the well trained and safer welder is seldom the sorry former welder - (now crispy critter). be safe - follow all the rules and dont take any chance to prove that something can be done without harm. it might be perfectly done today with no ill effect and it could fry somebody tomorrow morning, small things can make that much difference. the rules are there for a reason and welding is always potentially dangerous in a lot of ways.
Re: Electrical Danger ??
It's very important to distinguish between DC and AC. I have the Lincoln 225 AC/DC and while the instruction manual mentions you should not become part of the circuit, the AC is particularly dangerous where there is moisture. I have seen some stupid welders playing practical jokes by shocking each other on a pipeline job with DC. It hurts, but won't kill. AC on the other hand can induce fibrilation of the heart so be extra careful with it.
One of the things the manual suggests is to have the ground cable and the electrode cable on the same side of your body. In other words, don't put yourself in the middle between them. Be careful and be safe.
Regards,
-Art K
One of the things the manual suggests is to have the ground cable and the electrode cable on the same side of your body. In other words, don't put yourself in the middle between them. Be careful and be safe.
Regards,
-Art K
Re: Electrical Danger ??
I think the keeping the electrodes on one side is good for other reasons too. Nobody really knows if the magnetic fields are all that great for you? [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/shocked.gif"%20alt="[/img]
Re: Electrical Danger ??
Besides tripping over a cable behind you isn't a smart safety move either! [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/blush.gif"%20alt="[/img]
-Art K
-Art K