Hardfacing with wire welder

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dgoddard
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Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by dgoddard »

I have need of doing a small quantity of hardfacing, My welder is a Hobart Handler 187 (25-185 Amp) and is equipped with Argon/CO2 75%/25%
I have located some hardfacing 0.035" Flux Core wire at:
http://www.usaweld.com/Hardfacing-Wire-s/57.htm
however $170 for 10 lbs of the stuff is a bit pricy and way more than I would need for my limited use. I would not care to keep a large (for me) inventory around as I might have storage problems. Also:
-- I would need to know information about technique
-- Feed rate information
-- substrate preparation (1018 CR for the current project)
-- suitable thicknesses
-- Welder settings for such a wire type (feed rate, amperage, polarity, etc.)
-- anything else I need to be aware of.
The source I have found does not give an material spec. on their page that I have found
So if anyone here has knowledge of how and where I might obtain a smaller quantity of a hardfacing wire in .030 or .035 diameter suitable for use in my welder, please advise.
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redneckalbertan
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Re: Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by redneckalbertan »

Looking at the link that you posted I can't really tell you anything about it. If nothing else a respirator is your best friend. When you start dealing with high alloy content welding wires there is a lot of stuff in them that a person doesn't want to be inhaling.

I don't know what you are using the hard facing wire for, but I have had good luck with flux core and metal core welding wire from Hobart. And know others that have extensively used their line of product. Here is a wire that I would take a look at if I were you: http://www.hobartbrothers.com/product-d ... 26trade%3B It has a similar Rockwell hardness is impact resistant, and holds it's hardness under heat as well. On that page there are links to a Data Sheet which include weld paramaters, an MSDS sheet (So you know how it's slowly killing you :) ), and proof of certification.

If you do go with the wire from USA Weld take a look at the Hobart data sheet and start there. As for smaller lots of wire, I didn't know that anyone made a spool smaller than 25lbs.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by warmstrong1955 »

Smallest hardfacing wire I've ever used was .045". That was one time....about 6 years ago.....It was about $65.00 for a 10 pound roll then. $169.95 seems kinda steep to me.....but it's been a while. Everything else I've used.....always 1/16" and mostly larger.

If you haven't already, you might want to call your local Airgas store. They have stores in your area. They may not stock .035", but they sell Hobart, Stoody, Lincoln, among others, and could get it.....at least if they want to.....

We have 2 welding suppliers in town, Norco & Airgas, and either will go out of their way to help a guy out. No doubt that changes store to store, but it never hurts to ask....


Bill
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
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dgoddard
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Re: Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by dgoddard »

warmstrong1955 wrote:Smallest hardfacing wire I've ever used was .045". That was one time....about 6 years ago.....It was about $65.00 for a 10 pound roll then. $169.95 seems kinda steep to me.....but it's been a while. Everything else I've used.....always 1/16" and mostly larger.

If you haven't already, you might want to call your local Airgas store. They have stores in your area. They may not stock .035", but they sell Hobart, Stoody, Lincoln, among others, and could get it.....at least if they want to.....

Indeed, since my last post, by working with tech support at
-- Hobart Brothers for the wire
and
-- Hobart for how to use it in their welder
(formerly 1 company and now two) and
-- a recommendation to try at the local Airgas outlet,
I have come up with a price of $148 and about a 2 day wait to get an equivlent alloy in a 0.035 fluxcore wire size and 10 lb reel, and was able to download a technical specification and some usage tips as well as an MSDS.

That is still a bit pricey. I was hoping to find some in a 2 lb spoolgun reel size just to try it out My mig welder comes with an adapter that allows use of that size reel. I suppose the cost per pound would be a lot higher but at least I would not have to make such a cash layout just to try it to see if it does what I want. My first project for it would be to provide a durable edge to a digging bar/ manual stump cutter tool I made out of 1018 CR. If that were successful I would experiment with other tillage tools to come later.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by warmstrong1955 »

Mmmmm....a manual stump cutter......

I'm familiar with a few different brands of gasoline & diesel stumpcutters....as well as excavator attachments, but I've never seen a manual one. Interesting...

So long as you don't have much bending going on, you should be fine. Too much moving around, and the hardfacing can break off. Low carbon steels tend to work harden rather quickly. Also varies by how hard the deposited wire is.

Have fun!

Bill
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dgoddard
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Re: Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by dgoddard »

warmstrong1955 wrote:Mmmmm....a manual stump cutter......

I'm familiar with a few different brands of gasoline & diesel stumpcutters....as well as excavator attachments, but I've never seen a manual one. Interesting... Bill
It consists of a 1 inch steel bar about 55 inches long ground or milled on one end to provide a geometry that allows for a strong weld to a 3 inch wide, 6 inch long 1/2 inch thick blade with a 30 degree chisel edge with a small edge bevel at about 45 degrees . The rod is given a light knurl to allow for good grip without being so harsh as to rough up the hands. The bar is not used to attack the roots directly, but rather is used with vertical strokes to split off pieces along the edge of the stump. The split fragments will run into the roots and can be broken or cut off resulting in taking the offending stump below ground level where it can be left to rot and not trip people or bust mowers or bend their blades. The method is reasonably efficient, avoids unnecessary dulling of the blade, and while it is a bit of work, is quite handy for smaller stumps, At 15 lbs being dropped and thrust into "end grain" it splits the chips off pretty effectively for about the same effort per stroke as digging with a "clamshell" post hole digger. Watch your feet, and I hope you don't have to carry it around a lot. I paint mine white with black or red bands so it is hard to loose if dropped into grass, weeds, snow, leaves, etc. and highly visible wherever it is on the work site.

Now as to the advisability of hardfacing deposited on the cutting edge. That short bit of 45 degree bevel at the end of the chisel point is where I was going to deposit the hard face material

The brochure from Horbart brothers says "has good resistance to abrasion and impact" and recommends it for applications such as:
• Bucket lips and teeth
• Cultivator chisels and sweeps
• Plow shares, scraper blades
They do however recommend preheat of the substrate to prevent cracking of the deposit on low alloy steels which are the primary intended substrate.


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mcostello
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Re: Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by mcostello »

Wonder if the same result could be had with covering with nonmachineable cast iron electric rod? Opinions?
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dgoddard
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Re: Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by dgoddard »

mcostello wrote:Wonder if the same result could be had with covering with nonmachineable cast iron electric rod? Opinions?
A. Well, not with a mig welder
B. hard facing rods are available for stick welders I believe, and the total cash outlay would probably be less for a minimum purchase at least at some outlets.
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hammermill
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Re: Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by hammermill »

given the known application i would be tempted to grab some stainless rod if you have the welder to do it. being a hand operated/driver. indeed a good casehardening should provide pretty durable wear (kasinet and slow cool in sand)
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by warmstrong1955 »

dgoddard wrote:
mcostello wrote:Wonder if the same result could be had with covering with nonmachineable cast iron electric rod? Opinions?
A. Well, not with a mig welder
B. hard facing rods are available for stick welders I believe, and the total cash outlay would probably be less for a minimum purchase at least at some outlets.
I think you're probably right...I've used non machinable types of electrodes, made for dirty cast iron. Quite hard....and abrasive. Not sure how the deposit would be on mild, although on a hand operated device, would probably hold up quite well.

Only non machinable cast iron mig wires I've used, were for basically hardfacing cast iron parts. Used 'em in crushers, slurry & trash pumps & such. The wires for joining cast I've used were primarily nickel....notso hard.

As far as stainless wires, if they make any .035", gonna need some tri-gas if you want the stuff to look pretty. I've used 1/16" flux core, not sure of the particular brands, but it was for build up, (pump parts) and was pretty ugly with 75/25. (That was an oops)

Bill
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steamin10
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Re: Hardfacing with wire welder

Post by steamin10 »

If you have stick capable machine, a cast iron repair rod is quite hard and usable for your purposes. My experience is to preheat and weld low carbon for best results, high hard will crack and peel from the softer weld substrate, if coaxed to move..Stellite is probably overkill, and cracks when applied.

I repaired buckets and teeth with similar rod, and digging points for Ditch Witch type machines, that were run to near death. I used sfot steel wedges with a hard face edge for splitting, when I had the energy to do that.

With wire you have to buy the nominal weight, and my garage rusts such unpackaged wire, rendering it worthless. Much easier to go to a well equiped store and get a pound or two of special rod, or even a can to go, is cheaper.

Just some thoughts.
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