Sorry, thought your 'small welding was in the range of 22 gauge or so and thinner down to 10 thou or so. That's what thin means to me.
As far as migging 14 gauge I wouldn't bevel it. That's probably why it looks like you are welding too hot. Bet you are blowing holes in it. I don't think about beveling till I get over 1/8". By the time I hit 1/4" I'm beveling about half that thickness. Keep in mind I'm a home hobby guy doing this. Not an expert.
Rule of thumb is about 1 amp per thousandth thickness.
You can always use a thick copper bar as a backstop. It will help prevent blowthru. You can also use it to your advantage when trying to fix those blow thru holes too. Wouldn't depend on it if you are doing structural welding though. You just have to do structural welding right the first time.
Miller has some good, inexpensive student packages on their website to help us less experienced guys understand the basics of tig/mig.
Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
Moderator: Harold_V
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
Tip turning black and then getting spatter means to me you are losing the shielding gas. Where do you have the pressure set? Should be in the 15-20 CFH range.
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SteveHGraham
- Posts: 7788
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- Location: Florida
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
I don't know where the pressure was when I started. While I was fighting with it, I reached over and increased it slightly, and now it's at a little over 40.
I'm starting to think a Smith AW1A oxy-acetylene torch would be nice. I have MIG and a plasma cutter, so I can do most things fairly well, but it's hard to deal with little jobs.
I'm starting to think a Smith AW1A oxy-acetylene torch would be nice. I have MIG and a plasma cutter, so I can do most things fairly well, but it's hard to deal with little jobs.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
Well, how about pics of the results?
We read "blobby", which to me means globs, not holes, but others think you are blowing holes in it...... clearly we are confused...... I suppose either could be seen as "blobby"............ but you didn't mention holes, and didn't mention burnt-looking welds, just black on the tip....
Seeing the results would be very much more helpful in deciding what's going on.
To me, unless you get burnt-looking spattery "welds", you presumably have gas.
Pics, pics, pics.
We read "blobby", which to me means globs, not holes, but others think you are blowing holes in it...... clearly we are confused...... I suppose either could be seen as "blobby"............ but you didn't mention holes, and didn't mention burnt-looking welds, just black on the tip....
Seeing the results would be very much more helpful in deciding what's going on.
To me, unless you get burnt-looking spattery "welds", you presumably have gas.
Pics, pics, pics.
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
Keep in mind that too much shielding gas flow can screw things up almost as easily as too little. Too much flow can cause turbulence which will pull in outside air and ruin the weld zone. Read the book that came with your rig...read the flowmeter gauge. This is low tech stuff if you follow the directions even a little. 
Stuart
Stuart
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SteveHGraham
- Posts: 7788
- Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
I'm sorry for using the highly technical term "blobby." I can never resist the rigorous and esoteric.
The best of the welds were something like 3/16" across and convex. The filler was not sitting on top of the tubing. It definitely fused with the workpiece. I would guess the welds were 3/32" proud of the tubing around them. Higher in some areas. The term "blobby" was intended mostly to describe the size of the deposited filler. I thought these welds were huge. Maybe I overreacted. I have a friend whose dad retired in his late 70s. He was a professional welder, and when he welded steel tubing, grinding the crap off was very quick and left very little evidence. I guess all of my welds are going to look awful compared to his, and I should expect it.
My other problem was that I kept getting crappy arcs with spatter. The arcs seemed very unsteady, going on and off. It seemed like brushing the tip of the gun fixed this temporarily. I also cleaned up the ground clamp and the metal under it. Part of the time, the welds were smooth but too big. The rest of the time, the gun worked in fits and starts, leaving welds that were thick in places and thin in places.
Posting a photo is a great idea which didn't occur to me before I ground the welds flat. I still have some welds to do, so if I keep having trouble, I'll post photos.
Nothing is blowing through.
I guess I had so many problems, I sort of piled them together instead of separating and analyzing them separately. The helmet crapped out, so I was welding blind half the time, and then I ended up with what seemed like too much filler, and then there was the general crappiness of the welds.
I'm going to get better lighting, go back over the manual and my MIG DVD and see if I can figure it out.
If anyone has advice on making welds straighter, I would like to hear it. I was thinking I might clamp something to the work to use as a straightedge. I guess it would have to be nonconductive.
The best of the welds were something like 3/16" across and convex. The filler was not sitting on top of the tubing. It definitely fused with the workpiece. I would guess the welds were 3/32" proud of the tubing around them. Higher in some areas. The term "blobby" was intended mostly to describe the size of the deposited filler. I thought these welds were huge. Maybe I overreacted. I have a friend whose dad retired in his late 70s. He was a professional welder, and when he welded steel tubing, grinding the crap off was very quick and left very little evidence. I guess all of my welds are going to look awful compared to his, and I should expect it.
My other problem was that I kept getting crappy arcs with spatter. The arcs seemed very unsteady, going on and off. It seemed like brushing the tip of the gun fixed this temporarily. I also cleaned up the ground clamp and the metal under it. Part of the time, the welds were smooth but too big. The rest of the time, the gun worked in fits and starts, leaving welds that were thick in places and thin in places.
Posting a photo is a great idea which didn't occur to me before I ground the welds flat. I still have some welds to do, so if I keep having trouble, I'll post photos.
Nothing is blowing through.
I guess I had so many problems, I sort of piled them together instead of separating and analyzing them separately. The helmet crapped out, so I was welding blind half the time, and then I ended up with what seemed like too much filler, and then there was the general crappiness of the welds.
I'm going to get better lighting, go back over the manual and my MIG DVD and see if I can figure it out.
If anyone has advice on making welds straighter, I would like to hear it. I was thinking I might clamp something to the work to use as a straightedge. I guess it would have to be nonconductive.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
If the issue of straightness is from not seeing well, run a line with the soapstone down the side of the place to be welded. You should see that OK, I had to do it with the crap jackson helmets in class.
Too much material is just moving slower and letting more filler get put on. If you can see decently, you can see how the weld looks, and adjust.
Welding blind is no fun.... almost all of my class work was done blind because the Jackson helmet was so nasty, all I saw was a bright glowing ball where the arc was. Getting a decent weld was almost due to pure chance, and also the accuracy with which I could "go thru the motions". I would not have the least idea what was going on until I stopped welding and took a direct look at the finished weld.
Not until I used a decent HF helmet instead of the nasty Jackson did I actually see the puddle with mig or stick. Tig was never an issue seeing the puddle, and I intuitively understood how to do that. Maybe the fact that I finally got to use a decent helmet when we did tig in class was the reason.
Too much material is just moving slower and letting more filler get put on. If you can see decently, you can see how the weld looks, and adjust.
Welding blind is no fun.... almost all of my class work was done blind because the Jackson helmet was so nasty, all I saw was a bright glowing ball where the arc was. Getting a decent weld was almost due to pure chance, and also the accuracy with which I could "go thru the motions". I would not have the least idea what was going on until I stopped welding and took a direct look at the finished weld.
Not until I used a decent HF helmet instead of the nasty Jackson did I actually see the puddle with mig or stick. Tig was never an issue seeing the puddle, and I intuitively understood how to do that. Maybe the fact that I finally got to use a decent helmet when we did tig in class was the reason.
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SteveHGraham
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- Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
I also found out I was using the wrong tips. I was positive the wire was 0.035", and of course, it was actually 0.025". Picked up new ones today.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
Get comfortable and set up your hand/ torch position for the end of the weld not the start,that way as soon as you start the weld out of position you are working your way into position(comfort/control).SteveHGraham wrote:
If anyone has advice on making welds straighter, I would like to hear it. I
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
I'm only a noob but moving from stick to MIG, I found that the speed of welding is really quick, so maybe you are too slow.SteveHGraham wrote:.
Maybe I'm moving the torch too slow.
RodW
Brisbane, Australia
http://www.vehiclemods.net.au
Brisbane, Australia
http://www.vehiclemods.net.au
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steamin10
- Posts: 6712
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:52 pm
- Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
Looking over the see-saw of the discusion here, and not being a professional welder, only a long experienced hack, I will offer this:
It doesnt matter what process or method your using, if you cant see the work clearly, you are going to make a mess.
For me, parts that can fit in the palm of your hand, are best fused with silver solder or brazing on a hearth (brick) with frogs or copper wire ties, or other sacrificial attachments, just to hold the work. Learn to use your flux sparingly, and not slop brass and silver at the project, neatness counts.
Copper bar backers are commonly used for heavy materials with poor fits where the wire can disappear between parts, and the gap needs to be bridged. ( Like the armor hulls on tanks I worked on). It is nearly useless on light sheet, as the sheet will crown away form such backing, allowing a blowout.
Mig and stick, are the same melting and spraying molten metal onto base material fusing them. Gas mig, has the advantage of being finer in control, if the gas pool can be maintained. A simple bent metal angle set an inch away from you weld can help hold the gas sheild where you want it, as fans , drafts, too much flow can disrupt the pool. How much pool you have will affect how much amperage and cooling you get in the weld as you make it.
Tig and gas welding operate much the same with the diference that the arc is much more concentrated in one spot, and filler must be added at will to the base metal to fill the weld area, a juggling act many feel overwhelmed with when starting out. Unlike other prcesses where material is spewing out all the time, tig and gas, allow the operator to go back an remelt a rough or porous area and smooth it out without necessarily adding blobs of unwanted material. A definate advantage on small areas. This ability alone makes TIG the king of aluminum welding for boats and strcutures that require soundness and consistancy, with the same qualities for stainless, that is notoriously hard to get smooth welds, as it is 'sticky' and usually stays where you put it, lumpy or not. Stainless usually requires a bit finer technique, that is no more than eye hand co-ordination for that material. Again, vision of the puddle area is crucial to manipulate the puddle .
For me, it is my Achilles heal, as I hae excellent eyesight, but at the wrong distances for normal welding. My stock #10 shield, has 2.0 cheaters to get around the problem. My flex helm I use at close facial distance without my glasses.
So, that is my path, I hope my opinions on direction, do not muddy, but clarify the trail for you to follow, as you learn the refinements necessary to satisfy yourself with your work.
Practice makes perfect, you will have put in some time to be proficient. Good luck.
It doesnt matter what process or method your using, if you cant see the work clearly, you are going to make a mess.
For me, parts that can fit in the palm of your hand, are best fused with silver solder or brazing on a hearth (brick) with frogs or copper wire ties, or other sacrificial attachments, just to hold the work. Learn to use your flux sparingly, and not slop brass and silver at the project, neatness counts.
Copper bar backers are commonly used for heavy materials with poor fits where the wire can disappear between parts, and the gap needs to be bridged. ( Like the armor hulls on tanks I worked on). It is nearly useless on light sheet, as the sheet will crown away form such backing, allowing a blowout.
Mig and stick, are the same melting and spraying molten metal onto base material fusing them. Gas mig, has the advantage of being finer in control, if the gas pool can be maintained. A simple bent metal angle set an inch away from you weld can help hold the gas sheild where you want it, as fans , drafts, too much flow can disrupt the pool. How much pool you have will affect how much amperage and cooling you get in the weld as you make it.
Tig and gas welding operate much the same with the diference that the arc is much more concentrated in one spot, and filler must be added at will to the base metal to fill the weld area, a juggling act many feel overwhelmed with when starting out. Unlike other prcesses where material is spewing out all the time, tig and gas, allow the operator to go back an remelt a rough or porous area and smooth it out without necessarily adding blobs of unwanted material. A definate advantage on small areas. This ability alone makes TIG the king of aluminum welding for boats and strcutures that require soundness and consistancy, with the same qualities for stainless, that is notoriously hard to get smooth welds, as it is 'sticky' and usually stays where you put it, lumpy or not. Stainless usually requires a bit finer technique, that is no more than eye hand co-ordination for that material. Again, vision of the puddle area is crucial to manipulate the puddle .
For me, it is my Achilles heal, as I hae excellent eyesight, but at the wrong distances for normal welding. My stock #10 shield, has 2.0 cheaters to get around the problem. My flex helm I use at close facial distance without my glasses.
So, that is my path, I hope my opinions on direction, do not muddy, but clarify the trail for you to follow, as you learn the refinements necessary to satisfy yourself with your work.
Practice makes perfect, you will have put in some time to be proficient. Good luck.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.
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warmstrong1955
- Posts: 3568
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:05 pm
- Location: Northern Nevada
Re: Best Way to Weld Small Parts?
Right on Big Dave.steamin10 wrote: It doesn't matter what process or method your using, if you cant see the work clearly, you are going to make a mess.
If I'm stick welding, I'm generally fine with the ol' bifocals, so long as it's not out of position. MIG the same....with the bigger stuff. When I start doing small parts, MIG & TIG, and thinner parts, even exhaust pipe tubing, I have to break out the magnifiers. I have 3 pairs....2.0, 3.0, and now,
4.0 for the real small stuff. Amazing how much some cheap reading glasses will improve your welding.You can't see the puddle, and what it's doin', you can't weld.
Bill
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.