How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

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davidh
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by davidh »

steamin10 wrote:Its not the reading, its ducking the aluminum POPS, wasting time on unusable blobs of scrap, and making the same part multiple times without a good one. Getting hands on will quickly teach you what DOES NOT work. Been there.
+2 on the can melting. if you can quickly submerge the crushed can in a batch of already melted aluminum the dross will minimize but the end result is still CRAP.
there is an austrailian (sp_dude on youtube named dave (also goes by "oil burner" ) that in a series of great utube videos will show you how to get some good aluminum as in car or truck wheels, melted down into some great product. im currently rounding up parts and pieces to make a 55 gal. barrel burner using drain oil for a fuel just as he has. wheels, automatic transmissions, and engines are excellent candidates for mass melting. i have a couple boxes of piston material that i melted in my pro[pane fired furnace and iron pipe crucible. i have done quite a bit of "lost foam" casting of trinkets and things, using aluminum and also brass. that requires a much higher temperture but the results are beautiful. ive followed the alloy avenue forum for quite a few years and there are some absolute wizzards on there, and like many other forums they are so helpful when asked.
i could go on and on about lost foam and casting, i really enjoy it. simple and the results for me have been very good, not all but mostly. i could post some photos if i can figure out how to do it. . .
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ctwo
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by ctwo »

Harold_V wrote:Not a great idea. Excessive heat and stirring would simply promote more oxides, which are already excessive when melting aluminum, cans in particular, where so much dross is created. What can (and does) help is using degassing agents, which is good practice with aluminum, anyway.

Pure aluminum does not have great casting properties, so when one considers the huge loss of metal (dross), along with diminished casting qualities, it makes far more sense to sell aluminum cans, then buying once cast aluminum, as it is already alloyed for the purpose. Could be a scrap yard would be willing to trade cans for such scrap, as cans tend to bring a higher price.

Harold
There seems a bit of irony in this logic as, what is done with the cans? Don't the recycling issues persist relatively proportionately?

I think used car parts and electronic chassis may be a good source of aluminum.
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by BadDog »

I'm no expert, but I think the key point is the difference in what a home shop furnace can do vs a full commercial fine controlled atmosphere and chemically furnace can do.
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steamin10
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by steamin10 »

I target gas grills, aluminum auto wheels, pistons, transmission cases, and engine heads, to name a few. All the parts have to be broken up to fit into a crucible or a remelt furnace to be pigged out. Such pigs eliminate oxides and gas from oils and paints, and especially steel, from bolts, rivets and fasteners. The more iron in solution of the aluminum, the less fluid it is, and once in, it cannot be removed easily, and the aluminum must be re-smelted, a process far beyond the home and most commercial shops. Commercial shops buy ingot, or bar metal that is assayed. The home guy is stuck with his instincts, and experience.

Casting aluminum is much like making lead sinkers and such, only lighter, and with more heat. So garbage in, garbage out. Really some astounding things can be cast in a small home shop, whit a crude furnace, if you take the care to learn.

Cans in the recycle biz are usually crunched into cubes, and dropped into a pool of molten metal in a furnace that eliminates the 'burn' time, as it has a reducing (no oxygen) atmosphere, and they will some tonnage into billet or log for further processing. We have a local melter that is Jupiter Aluminum that recycles and rolls some aluminum products from recycle. I do not have details.
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by Harold_V »

I'm not up to speed on the processes involved, but I do know that dross (oxidized aluminum) is sent to aluminum manufacturers to be reduced to aluminum once again. I happened to arrive at the foundry of an old friend as he was loading a semi with the stuff.

Everything I've read in that regard leads me to believe that extremely high temperatures are involved (arc), so the process is not exactly one suited to the home foundry.

Because of the huge amount of surface area of cans, much of the aluminum is oxidized in the melting process unless there is a controlled atmosphere or molten aluminum, to which cans can be introduced. I've seen aluminum cans processed by bailing as well as shredding, so there must be an acceptable process for each of the methods involved in recycling.

Harold
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by ken572 »

Harold_V wrote:I'm not up to speed on the processes involved, but I do know that dross (oxidized aluminum) is sent to aluminum manufacturers to be reduced to aluminum once again. I happened to arrive at the foundry of an old friend as he was loading a semi with the stuff.

Everything I've read in that regard leads me to believe that extremely high temperatures are involved (arc), so the process is not exactly one suited to the home foundry.

Because of the huge amount of surface area of cans, much of the aluminum is oxidized in the melting process unless there is a controlled atmosphere or molten aluminum, to which cans can be introduced. I've seen aluminum cans processed by bailing as well as shredding, so there must be an acceptable process for each of the methods involved in recycling.

Harold
Good Morning :!: Harold :D

Thank You for the above Writing.

You might be interested to watch the following You Tube
Videos. These can be run on 120 vac and/or 240 vac., which is
most always available in the home shop.
-
How To Make An Electrical Arc Furnace
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTzKIs19eZE
-
Mini Arc Furnas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIlZsuRc9jQ
-
Melting Cans With The Mini Metal Foundry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSoWxG30rb0
-
How to Make The Metal Melter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5pGN6pqkyY
-
How To Make The Mini Metal Foundry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHD10DjxM1g

Ken. :)
One must remember.
The best learning experiences come
from working with the older Masters.
Ken.
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steamin10
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by steamin10 »

Ken: With all due respect for your librarian abilities, some of the U-tube stuff like this guy, (the king whatever) is very Mc Giver, and ultimately dangerous from exposure to electric currents, vapors and unknown chemicals, and even heavy metals. While T. Edison may have some experiments along these lines, I see no reason to duplicate known principles in Mr. Wizard fashion for so little gain.

At the core is doing casting at home, with reasonable risk, and production. This aint it. There are much better vids about burners, furnace construction, and actual pieces being made.

Thanks for your effort, but I believe it is a wrong but parallel road.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
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Harold_V
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by Harold_V »

I'm inclined to agree with Big Dave. Youtube is overloaded with misinformation----for reasons best known to the individual responsible for what gets offered. Some are invaluable, while others are, for all practical purposes, valueless. The problem being that unless the readers possess knowledge, it borders on the impossible to know what is valid, and what is not. Much of what has been presented is for the wrong reasons, and often presents risk, or results in failure because pertinent information is not disclosed.

The subject of melting cans.

The idea of doing so is the problem. There are far better sources of material for the home foundry.

Building furnaces.

I am not exactly inexperienced in that arena. I have built several furnaces, in most cases, more or less duplicating designs known to work well. In all but one example, they have performed as expected. The one exception, and it is not the example that did not perform as was desired, is the tilting reverberatory furnace I designed and built for the recovery of values from waste materials from the refining process (precious metals). While I've posted this picture before, I'll do it again.
Tilt furnace #2.jpg
This furnace performed to perfection, resulting in the recovery of more than 200 ounces of gold, silver, platinum and palladium.

Bottom line in this thread is cans are not a good source of aluminum for the home foundry. It makes no sense to struggle with them when other materials are readily available, and have the potential to yield acceptable results.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by DavidF »

Ken, If you do decide to melt cans you can expect 30-50% to be lost in dross (without fluxing) and they also have a pretty high shrink rate when compaired to a good casting alloy like 356 but they do melt LOL.
If you can find some cast automobile parts like cyl heads, intakes, and alloy wheels to cast with you will find them far superior for casting. But if you just want to experiment and all you have is cans to start out with then go for it, its a good learning experience and when you get a hold of some good alloy you will appreciate it and know first hand the night and day difference.
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by ken572 »

(ALL) :D

I Thank all of you for sharing the Pro's and Con's
of Melting Can's and all other opinions Mentioned. 8)

I believe in giving credit where credit is due. :wink:

For the people that spend there time making the
YouTube Video's, I thank you all because I enjoy
watching and seeing what you are making and or
trying to make. Yes, some are a little crazy and
maybe a little dangerous, but crazy is fixable and
dangerous is also fixable.

I have high respect for people that think out of the
box and push ahead with there idea's and make
an effort to make the idea work, no matter how
much flack they get thrown in front of them. These
are the real deal people. As far as doing things for
personal gain, I don't care about gain. I just allow
myself to have fun. Home Hobby Shops are for fun
and enjoyment and sharing with, and helping other's.
I Thank You All for reading this, and your comments.

Ken. :)
One must remember.
The best learning experiences come
from working with the older Masters.
Ken.
Mike Walsh
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by Mike Walsh »

Another problem with the youtube videos is that they don't demonstrate proper personal protective equipment.

Also, many don't realize the dangers of working with molten aluminum. A drop of water can and will vaporize to steam, and in some cases, will cause a "mini explosion" throwing aluminum everywhere.

Same goes for tools... If they are cold or damp, violent explosions will occur. Always warm up your tools before dipping them into molten Aluminum. I don't want to see anyone find out the hard way what happens...
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neanderman
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Re: How To Turn Styrofoam, Into Solid Aluminum (VERY COOL)

Post by neanderman »

Interesting metal, aluminum. We tend to think of it not being prone to oxidation when the fact it that it is *extremely* prone to oxidation. It is the fact that the oxidation forms a thin, self protective film over the surface that prevents further oxidation. The process is called passivation.
Ed

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