If I am posting this in the wrong place, please let me know. I am not sure exactly where this question falls.
I started to learn to run a forge this weekend after watching quite a few youtube videos on the subject. I used charcoal as a fuel and used my Gingery furnace as a forge. It worked alright and I was able to mostly flatten out the head of a spike and straiten out another one. The problem is the furnace is not a good forge. Anyone know of some good (preferably free) sources on forge design? The main problems I ran into are:
I had trouble keeping the charcoal piled on the metal so I was burning without doing much (heat) work.
It took a very long time to heat and reheat the piece where it did not take nearly as long in the videos I was watching (I don't believe they were time lapsed either).
I keep getting ash accumulation in the bottom of the furnace so I didn't get a good air distribution (bad furnace design on my part)
thanks in advance
DIY forge links
Moderator: Harold_V
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steamin10
- Posts: 6712
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:52 pm
- Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip
Ya, with any solid fuel you will have to contend with cast sparks and a lot of fly ash.
A good forge furnace will be underblown, (from beneath) and that means a good firebed to move through. Coal and charcoal are good, How you blow it to crank out the heat is just adapting a good method of getting a good airstream going. Old time forge furnaces had a bellows of some size to draft the fire and a helper to run it. I am sure you got glimpses of the old forges in all the western movies. I used some walkway bar grating to insure good air flow under the charcoal.
Most everyone uses gas firetube burners to a hearth, where the heating business takes place. The hearth is bricklined and open on a narrow gap down the side that houses the fire, and the stock is shoved into the flame path. If you cant get your stock up to a yellow-white heat, you will not get good forming ability, when you try to work it. What little work I have done was with charcoal and a leaf blower. The leaf blower was taped to a dryer tube of glavanized duct to keep from melting the blower, and a coupla shutters were made to fit the intake of the blower to control the draft volume, since I had no speed control. Crude, but I could melt an aluminum auto wheel pretty good, and heat the end of an 1" iron bar in about 3-4 minutes for shaping (hammer forged, on a tie plate, nailed to a firewood round of about 24 inches) Higher saves the back from that curl that kills.
The forging is usually done on some contraption that will stand up to being beat severely, like a section of railroad rail, a tie plate, or heavy cut of steel plate. Hot, dirty, and full of flying sparks, this thing takes a tougher kind to run it, and not complain.
A good forge furnace will be underblown, (from beneath) and that means a good firebed to move through. Coal and charcoal are good, How you blow it to crank out the heat is just adapting a good method of getting a good airstream going. Old time forge furnaces had a bellows of some size to draft the fire and a helper to run it. I am sure you got glimpses of the old forges in all the western movies. I used some walkway bar grating to insure good air flow under the charcoal.
Most everyone uses gas firetube burners to a hearth, where the heating business takes place. The hearth is bricklined and open on a narrow gap down the side that houses the fire, and the stock is shoved into the flame path. If you cant get your stock up to a yellow-white heat, you will not get good forming ability, when you try to work it. What little work I have done was with charcoal and a leaf blower. The leaf blower was taped to a dryer tube of glavanized duct to keep from melting the blower, and a coupla shutters were made to fit the intake of the blower to control the draft volume, since I had no speed control. Crude, but I could melt an aluminum auto wheel pretty good, and heat the end of an 1" iron bar in about 3-4 minutes for shaping (hammer forged, on a tie plate, nailed to a firewood round of about 24 inches) Higher saves the back from that curl that kills.
The forging is usually done on some contraption that will stand up to being beat severely, like a section of railroad rail, a tie plate, or heavy cut of steel plate. Hot, dirty, and full of flying sparks, this thing takes a tougher kind to run it, and not complain.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.
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dpeterson3
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:58 pm
My anvil right now is a tie plate spiked to a tree stump. Very crude, but it does the job. I am in need of a better forge. I know I am going to get a lot of ash no matter what. My problem is I kept clogging the intake to my furnace with ash so I had to turn up the air to keep it clear. As soon as I did that, it blew the coal piled around the iron away. I am thinking of using an old shallow sink (if I can find one). Run a pipe with holes along the bottom to bring air in and fill it with charcoal. That way, I can also accommodate larger pieces and place it on a table.
Blacksmiths historically used charcoal but quickly switched to coal when it became available. Coal - the soft "blacksmith coal" - tends to smell a lot worse than charcoal, because of the sulfur content, but has a LOT more heat per shovel-full, and you actually can keep a fire going long enough to weld something, without having to pour on more charcoal.
A lot of guys here in the Northeast use old "riveting forges", which look like heavy-duty bowl barbecues, and which often can be found for a few dollars in junkyards. Another alternative is a truck brake-drum, with legs bolted on (being cast iron, I don't think I'd try welding it). Again, a junkyard item.
Generally speaking, you'll want the hot part of the fire less than a foot across, unless you want to work on long pieces like decorative railings or sword-blades; in which case you may need to build a long, narrow forge.
Possibly the most important item is the "tuyere" or "tue-iron" , which is the pipe thru which air is blown into the bottom of the firepit. You can get those on FleaBay for not a lot of money, IIRC only about $20. You'll also need a grate for the top of the tuyere, where it joins the firepit. The bottom should have a counterbalanced trapdoor for cleaning the ash out of the tuyere.
A blower gets connected to the t-joint on the tuyere, and that provides the air. Usually these are heavy iron things with a handcrank; you could also use a bellows if you're interested in historical accuracy, but believe me, a crank-blower is a LOT easier to use. Again, you can find them on FleaBay; just keep in mind that they're heavy to ship.
Some smiths use a little squirrel-cage blower, with a rheostat speed control. I've used one of those, and yes, it lets you focus on the iron, but you waste a lot of coal, because half the time you forget to turn it off when you turn from the forge to the anvil.
My first anvil was a granite boulder in my back yard. I "graduated" to a piece of railroad rail, spiked down to a chunk of log. That worked for a year, until I found a good anvil of a size I could move around.
As Harold suggested, there are plenty of sources of info on the 'Net, among them the Artist Blacksmiths' Association of North America (ABANA); website at http://www.abana.org/ - they are a good source for general information, and also have a "buy and sell" section. I believe they also have a members' directory, which you could use to find some instruction/advice in your own neighborhood.
If you want a good basic book, I suggest "Backyard Blacksmith" by Lorelei Sims. Good projects, and a lot of excellent advice on how to DO this stuff.
Another one - very good for historical info, and with an excellent section on forge design - is "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" by Alexander G. Weygers - this is a collection of articles from blacksmiths' "trade magazines", mostly from the 19th century. However, being from that long ago, it's very light on safety - for instance one article talks about hardening steel by quenching it in liquid mercury!! (Not something you'd likely survive doing for very long.)
Good luck!
A lot of guys here in the Northeast use old "riveting forges", which look like heavy-duty bowl barbecues, and which often can be found for a few dollars in junkyards. Another alternative is a truck brake-drum, with legs bolted on (being cast iron, I don't think I'd try welding it). Again, a junkyard item.
Generally speaking, you'll want the hot part of the fire less than a foot across, unless you want to work on long pieces like decorative railings or sword-blades; in which case you may need to build a long, narrow forge.
Possibly the most important item is the "tuyere" or "tue-iron" , which is the pipe thru which air is blown into the bottom of the firepit. You can get those on FleaBay for not a lot of money, IIRC only about $20. You'll also need a grate for the top of the tuyere, where it joins the firepit. The bottom should have a counterbalanced trapdoor for cleaning the ash out of the tuyere.
A blower gets connected to the t-joint on the tuyere, and that provides the air. Usually these are heavy iron things with a handcrank; you could also use a bellows if you're interested in historical accuracy, but believe me, a crank-blower is a LOT easier to use. Again, you can find them on FleaBay; just keep in mind that they're heavy to ship.
Some smiths use a little squirrel-cage blower, with a rheostat speed control. I've used one of those, and yes, it lets you focus on the iron, but you waste a lot of coal, because half the time you forget to turn it off when you turn from the forge to the anvil.
My first anvil was a granite boulder in my back yard. I "graduated" to a piece of railroad rail, spiked down to a chunk of log. That worked for a year, until I found a good anvil of a size I could move around.
As Harold suggested, there are plenty of sources of info on the 'Net, among them the Artist Blacksmiths' Association of North America (ABANA); website at http://www.abana.org/ - they are a good source for general information, and also have a "buy and sell" section. I believe they also have a members' directory, which you could use to find some instruction/advice in your own neighborhood.
If you want a good basic book, I suggest "Backyard Blacksmith" by Lorelei Sims. Good projects, and a lot of excellent advice on how to DO this stuff.
Another one - very good for historical info, and with an excellent section on forge design - is "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" by Alexander G. Weygers - this is a collection of articles from blacksmiths' "trade magazines", mostly from the 19th century. However, being from that long ago, it's very light on safety - for instance one article talks about hardening steel by quenching it in liquid mercury!! (Not something you'd likely survive doing for very long.)
Good luck!
Pete in NJ
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Selwyn Mileham
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:24 am
- Location: South Africa
Cheap Blacksiths forge
If you can get hold an old Disc plow shear it makes a dandy forge.
Weld some legs on. Old water piping is good. Weld a water pipe nipple onto the center hole for an air feed. some sort of blower is needed. I use an old three speed hair dryer with the element removed. Connect using flexible exhaust piping.
A shield about 150mm high is fixed to the back and comes about half way round.
It is amazing what you can achieve with bits of junk.
Selwyn
Weld some legs on. Old water piping is good. Weld a water pipe nipple onto the center hole for an air feed. some sort of blower is needed. I use an old three speed hair dryer with the element removed. Connect using flexible exhaust piping.
A shield about 150mm high is fixed to the back and comes about half way round.
It is amazing what you can achieve with bits of junk.
Selwyn
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dpeterson3
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:58 pm
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Russ Hanscom
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- Location: Farmington, NM
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dpeterson3
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:58 pm
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tailshaft56
- Posts: 885
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:12 pm
- Location: Miami Oklahoma (Palm trees not included)
Re:
PeteH wrote:
Some smiths use a little squirrel-cage blower, with a rheostat speed control. I've used one of those, and yes, it lets you focus on the iron, but you waste a lot of coal, because half the time you forget to turn it off when you turn from the forge to the anvil.
Good luck!
A simple momentary contact foot switch for the blower would eliminate leaving it on. Maybe a regular switch in parallel for an over ride should you want to keep the blower running.
Dennis
Thermal Arc 185-TS
Millermatic Challenger 172
Victor O/A
Atlas Craftsman 12 by 24 Lathe
Esab PCM-875
Wholesale Tool Mill-Drill
Thermal Arc 185-TS
Millermatic Challenger 172
Victor O/A
Atlas Craftsman 12 by 24 Lathe
Esab PCM-875
Wholesale Tool Mill-Drill