gunmetal?

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Adirondack
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gunmetal?

Post by Adirondack » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:14 pm

Can anyone recommend a source for gunmetal ingots?

I'd like to cast small small scale steamer parts.

Thanks

Chris
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Harold_V
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by Harold_V » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:24 pm

Here's a source.

http://www.bronze-ingot.com/index.html

Mind you, I have no personal experience with this entity. It is not an endorsement, nor do I have an interest in their business. (Usual disclaimers)

It may pay to explore other sources, but, in any case, be prepared for sticker shock for all copper alloys.

Harold
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Adirondack
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by Adirondack » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:58 pm

Harold_V wrote:Here's a source.

http://www.bronze-ingot.com/index.html

Mind you, I have no personal experience with this entity. It is not an endorsement, nor do I have an interest in their business. (Usual disclaimers)

It may pay to explore other sources, but, in any case, be prepared for sticker shock for all copper alloys.

Harold
Thanks Harold. I am a bit scared, as their website lists quantities for sale by METRIC TON. LOL

Cheers,

Chris
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steamin10
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by steamin10 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:34 pm

Gunmetal, as they call it in England is Naval Bronze which is Copper-Tin alloy in its various forms. Good casting material is trade named Everdur, and some variations. Small amounts can be had from Art casting supply houses, and you can ship an amazing cost of metal in USPS box quantities of some 20 lbs plus. You are looking at some $, plus shipping, so be miserly and look for something local, and buy in bulk, if you can. Look to the big city where there might be a smaller cast shop, and see if you can buy there. Sometimes they take pity on us poor home boys, and a trip through a small foundry will open your eyes to a lot of methodology. Some times, they may even take interest in your project, and give a free cast or two, if you are prepared to go. it is amazing that most shops depend on a small repeat product line, for local work, and get bored doing it, so anything else becomes interesting, and if they see a repeat business, will at least talk to you.

The last is scrap from your local dealer, that may need chemical treatment, or unidnetified adjustments, so that is the least desirable source, but worth checking. Just remember that bronzes have no zinc, and technically a brass is a bronze but bronze is never brass. ( Brass is a copper alloy, and therefore under bronze alloys. I KNOW, I get a headache when they do this stuff. I lost this arguement long ago, and refuse to fight it again. Machinists handbook has the common grades of metals by number and should be aquanted with before you make any assumptions) So keep your virgin metal virgin, and only recycle limited amounts of revert into any melt, 1/4 is a good number for me for bar metal, and junk heats are just that, junk. But I love free stuff, so there you go. Raw copper scrap is about $3.50 on commodities market, so judge from that. Locally a spool of 45% Silver solder knocked me for $95 or so. So be realistic on your expectations.EDIT: that was 3 troy OZ of solder material in fine wire, about 1/16 by eye. Silver is a consumable expensive metal.

For most casting purposes, you are looking at silicon bronze, as it will flow best and produce the best castings with limited experience.

EDIT: see note.
Last edited by steamin10 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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RONALD
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by RONALD » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:12 am

Here is the place I buy my bronze casting ingots from. See if they have what you want. They are located in Chicago, so shipping costs should not be as much as from India.

http://hkramer.com/contact-us.html

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Pipescs
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by Pipescs » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:24 am

If you are up north in the Pennsylvania area try Lancaster Foundry supply.

They have shipped me indifidual ingots of Bronze before. They have no problem working with hobbiest

http://www.lancasterfoundrysupply.com/
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FLtenwheeler
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by FLtenwheeler » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:33 pm

I found this years ago.

Tim

You need to remember that "gunmetal" covers 7 or more metals. Some machine nice some are very hard. LG1 has a machining Index of 90, LG2 has a machining Index of 84, LG3 has a machining Index of 42, were G1 and G2 are even harder to machine with a machining Index of 30 (Compared to "free machining brass" of 100).

I have found the relevant information about Gunmetal. According to BSS 1400 there are Seven different grades with the following composition of Copper (Cu), Tin (Sn), Zinc (Zn) and Lead (Pb):


G1: 88% Cu, 10% Sn, 2% Zn, 0% Pb (UNS C90500 G Bronze. Hardness, 75 Brinell )

G2: 88% Cu, 8% Sn, 4% Zn, 0% Pb (UNS C90300 Modified G Bronze. Hardness, 70 Brinell)

G3: 85% Cu, 7% Sn, 2.5% Zn, 0% Pb, 5.5% Ni (UNS C94700 or UNS C94800 Nickel Gunmetal)

LG1: 83% Cu, 3% Sn, 9% Zn, 5% Pb (UNS C84400 "close match" Leaded Semi-Red Brass. Hardness, 55 Brinell)

LG2: 85% Cu, 5% Sn, 5% Zn, 5% Pb (UNS C83600 Leaded Red Brass. Hardness, 60 Brinell )

LG3: 86% Cu, 7% Sn, 5% Zn, 2% Pb (UNS C92200 "close match" Leaded Tin Bronze, Navy M Bronze, Steam Bronze. Hardness, 65 Brinell )

LG4: 86% Cu, 7% Sn, 2% Zn, 3% Pb, 2% Ni (UNS C92410 Leaded Gunmetal)
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by jkimberln » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:12 pm

I just checked on gunmetal formulas listed on my Beyer-Peacock drawings. Looks like the G1 type is used for cylinders and such - 88 Cu, 2 Zn, 10 Sn, and the 85 Cu, 5 Sn, 5 Zn, 5 Pb for a lot of the mechanical things.

These two alloys would be pretty easy to make. If you can already melt bronze, then it would be no trouble to formulate your own. Other than copper (which could be copper electrical wire or copper tubing), the tin, zinc and lead are easily available. One source is Rotometals in San Leandro, CA. If a person has a source of scrap copper of known pedigree, bronze might be cheaper to make than buy

JerryK

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Adirondack
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by Adirondack » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:38 am

Thanks to everyone! :)

Chris
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by wewilliams » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:16 pm

G1: 88% Cu, 10% Sn, 2% Zn, 0% Pb (UNS C90500 G Bronze. Hardness, 75 Brinell )

1 lbs old copper pennies
1.5 lbs clean scrap electric copper
4.5 oz Tin shot

You got Gunmetal, before math majors post, it is withing tolerances for GM

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Re: gunmetal?

Post by Harold_V » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:06 pm

wewilliams wrote:G1: 88% Cu, 10% Sn, 2% Zn, 0% Pb (UNS C90500 G Bronze. Hardness, 75 Brinell )

1 lbs old copper pennies
1.5 lbs clean scrap electric copper
4.5 oz Tin shot

You got Gunmetal, before math majors post, it is withing tolerances for GM
If one chooses to melt US pennies, do so quietly.

http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/index.c ... ase&ID=724

I am not making a judgment in posting this link, just advising those who may melt pennies (or nickels) that it is illegal.

Harold
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by wewilliams » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:11 am

Harold --

Let's not get started with government, property ownership, money & currency and what a slave is.

"Don't melt pennies by the ton kids" -- nuff said.

Ted

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