gunmetal?

Home enthusiasts discuss their Foundry & Casting work.

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Harold_V
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by Harold_V »

wewilliams wrote:Harold --

Let's not get started with government, property ownership, money & currency and what a slave is.

"Don't melt pennies by the ton kids" -- nuff said.

Ted
You apparently missed the point.
It is illegal to melt pennies and nickels. Doesn't matter if it's one, or a ton.

I think anyone here that might be inclined to do so needs to understand that if that be their choice, it should not be made public.

The discussion of politics and/or religion is not acceptable on this board.

Harold
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wewilliams
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by wewilliams »

https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... cent-coins
However, the regulation includes an exception for the treatment of 5-cent and one-cent coins for educational,amusement, novelty, jewelry, and similar purposes as long as the volumes treated and the nature of the treatment make it clear that such treatment is not intended as a means by which to profit solely from the value of the metal content of the coins.
In short, don't melt pennies by the ton.
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by Harold_V »

wewilliams wrote:https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... cent-coins
However, the regulation includes an exception for the treatment of 5-cent and one-cent coins for educational,amusement, novelty, jewelry, and similar purposes as long as the volumes treated and the nature of the treatment make it clear that such treatment is not intended as a means by which to profit solely from the value of the metal content of the coins.
In short, don't melt pennies by the ton.
"and the nature of the treatment make it clear that such treatment is not intended as a means by which to profit solely from the value of the metal content of the coins".

A slippery slope, to be sure. One is using the coins in your example as a means to circumvent paying the price for bulk metal of a given formulation, which is readily available for purchase, but at a price higher than that of making one's own alloy. That can easily be construed as an attempt to profit, which is not the intended purpose of the exemption, at least as I see it. The government clearly does not wish to see coins, needed for commerce, melted for use where the intended purpose is to profit by melting.

Don't misunderstand. I am not arguing the point. I am simply saying that to use coins as you suggested, is opening the door to prosecution. To advertise the fact is waving the red blanket in front of the bull.

Again, I reiterate---if one chooses to melts coins accordingly, do it quietly, the point you are ignoring.

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... 12#p343212

Harold
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by wewilliams »

True, but this is not just for selling the alloy and not in large volume. I'd say a backyard caster in under the
amusement, novelty, jewelry, and similar purposes
section. Same thing allows a hobbyist to duck the clean air regulations since they only apply to commercial foundries. You get 68 lbs of alloy in $100 of old pennies, enough to make 188 lbs of gunmetal. You gotta do a bunch of castings to pour that much and if you are pouring that much, you would not worry about getting 1 or 2 bars of alloy.
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by steamin10 »

I can attest that mishandling coin, can get you in hot water fast. I can also say that balancing raw metal scrap into a viable alloy, in small quantity, is a crap shoot for various reasons. Making a coupla pounds to formula without testing, is pure guess work. Buying trade bars is a no brainer.

One problem I had is obtaining Tin. It is not commonly available in small lots, and some shmo on Ebay will sell you solder of whatever grade for pure tin, and the home guy has a devil of a time knowing what he is getting.

Starting with copper wire, that is nearly always 98% pure, it is relatively easy to melt it and add the percentages of base alloy, if you can verify what you have. BUT, such pot alloys of copper ALWAYS pick up oxides and gas, so it must be worked or pigged to de-gas. Just some practical notes.
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by Harold_V »

wewilliams wrote:You get 68 lbs of alloy in $100 of old pennies,
But the government has to spend more to replace them than that, and that's with 95% zinc, and you think they'd think that was OK? As if to say that you only stole a little money, not a lot, therefore it's acceptable?

I think not.

As I said, if you choose to do that, don't make it public. And more importantly, don't give anyone the idea that you got an endorsement from the Chaski board to do something that is more likely illegal than it is legal, in spite of your protestations.

Harold
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RickBarb
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by RickBarb »

Some time back, one of the regular posters on this site expressed an interest in making wine. I posted a link to a site that gave information about making spirits via distillation. This site also had information on winemaking which I thought might have been of interest to this individual. The poster took umbrage at my linkage to a site that gave information on how to make alcohol because it was illegal for one to distill alcohol without a license in the USA (Not so in some other countries). He contacted the moderator and requested my post be deleted. The moderator immediately deleted my post because of the "illegal content". Here we are freely discussing another Illegal activity. Double standard perhaps?
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by wewilliams »

"But the government has to spend more to replace them than that, and that's with 95% zinc, and you think they'd think that was OK? As if to say that you only stole a little money, not a lot, therefore it's acceptable?"

But that is just the point, it is not the governments money, unless you stole it, it is yours.

Distillation -- quite legal up to 200 or 300 gallons per year in the US -- you cannot sell what you make, just drink it.
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by Harold_V »

wewilliams wrote:"But the government has to spend more to replace them than that, and that's with 95% zinc, and you think they'd think that was OK? As if to say that you only stole a little money, not a lot, therefore it's acceptable?"

But that is just the point, it is not the governments money, unless you stole it, it is yours.

Distillation -- quite legal up to 200 or 300 gallons per year in the US -- you cannot sell what you make, just drink it.
It is more than evident to me that you are poorly informed. There is no amount of alcohol that can be distilled without a federal license, and that which is distilled must be denatured so it isn't fit for human consumption.

http://www.ehow.com/way_5476701_legal-m ... e-use.html

Of course, those who are licensed as distillers of spirits for consumption have no obligation to denature their products, as that is counter to the purpose of their license, a license that is not easily acquired. The government makes NO provisions for home distilling for ingestion. Like melting pennies, if you make the decision to do so, it's at your own risk.

We're finished with this topic. The thread has been requested to be locked, and I agree. This board is not the place for individuals who wish to make their own rules to make their thoughts known publicly. If anyone reading wishes to continue this discussion, it isn't going to be on this board. Go elsewhere.

I made it clear, it is my obligation to protect the owner of this fine gathering place. Allowing those to post on topics that break the law isn't going to be tolerated, as I am not willing to see that fine gentleman guilty by association.

Harold
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Re: gunmetal?

Post by Harold_V »

RickBarb wrote:Some time back, one of the regular posters on this site expressed an interest in making wine. I posted a link to a site that gave information about making spirits via distillation. This site also had information on winemaking which I thought might have been of interest to this individual. The poster took umbrage at my linkage to a site that gave information on how to make alcohol because it was illegal for one to distill alcohol without a license in the USA (Not so in some other countries). He contacted the moderator and requested my post be deleted. The moderator immediately deleted my post because of the "illegal content". Here we are freely discussing another Illegal activity. Double standard perhaps?
Rick
I'd like folks to think that I try to be fair. For you to have had your post deleted may not seem in keeping with that, but there's a little difference between that topic and the one at hand.

The discussion of melting pennies revolves around foundry work, which is considered topical (we have a foundry sub-forum, as I'm sure you noticed). However, wine making is not in keeping with the topics discussed here. That's not to say that it can't be mentioned, as we try to accommodate folks, especially if they're sharing something of interest, even though it might not be in keeping with the purpose of the board.

That being said, I'd hope you can understand that when a topic that has the potential to be illegal is being discussed, we (I, in particular) have an obligation to protect the owner of this forum. He provides this service to all, at his expense, and asks nothing in return, aside from a forum that runs without acrimony, and is kept respectable, such that his now not as young children can read without being exposed to vulgarity, or topics that should not be promoted due to legality.

I apologize if you felt put upon, but I ask of you to try to understand that this board must be kept clean and honest, otherwise we are at risk of it being shut down. Some may feel that's no big deal, but there is no other forum, shop related, where an individual can post (on topic) without fear of being flamed, or set upon because of his/her choice of machines. We cater to those who are in need of guidance, and do so with respect.

I have locked this thread, but if you feel you would like to respond, please do so by starting a new thread, or if you feel your message is more appropriately sent privately, feel free to send me a PM.

I am not suggesting that any reader start another thread that will be controversial, more or less a continuation of this one. I expect this topic to be finished, without further comment. I'm not the least bit interested in a constant barrage of misinformation.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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