Shop heat

[tetramachine]

I would suggest a heat pump for home and shop. Geo-thermal is the most expensive to buy, cheapest to run, a regular HP is second. I've experience with both, in the shop a single split 24000 btu unit, does the job even at below zero temps this past winter.When I lived in PA it was a whole house Geo system. That was an open water system used two wells, other Geo's is a closed system use coils of pipe buried in the yard. Look into them.

Now if I could solve the house and shop heating issue. Propane isn't an option, as it's just as costly as heating oil. Contains only about 2/3 the BTU's per gallon when compared to oil.

Harold

[Harold_V]

I would suggest a heat pump for home and shop. Geo-thermal is the most expensive to buy, cheapest to run, a regular HP is second.

The biggest problem I have is that both the house and shop are plumbed for hydronic heating, with no provisions for forced air. Installing duct work in the house isn't in the cards, as there is nothing exposed, not even in the basement. Secondly, assuming I was to turn to heat pumps, I am not aware of any heat exchangers that would serve the purpose. Next problem would be the cost of providing the ground water. Our well is 366 feet deep, and produces only 7 gallons/minute. A new well wouldn't be an acceptable solution.

I ran a pair of heat pumps at the castle, but that was long ago. They were made by Coleman, but it turns out they weren't the best choice for our location, as they ran, primarily, on the heat strips, so cost of heating was extreme. I attribute that more to the location than anything, however. Utah isn't known for its warm winters, at least not the Salt Lake Valley.

Thanks for your comments. I am still struggling with a solution to our heating problem. I see a custom built wood burning hot water boiler in my future!

Harold

[Russ Hanscom]

A heat pump would work, it just would exchange to water instead of air. Possibly a hot water storage tank in place of the present boiler, kept as a backup, and then the heat pump heats the hot water storage tank.

In ground loops can be made by trenching with a backhoe or drilling dummy wells, a hairpin of pipe is inserted into the dummy well and the solution is circulated through that. You do not need actual water flow to build a system. We looked at one and I think we required five or six ground wells or quite a few hundred feet of trench so you can imagine it getting pricy. Given your property layout, ground wells would be better than trenching, with less disruption.

I think I have a bit of info if you want to look into it.

[Russ Hanscom]

This really one of those time when you should split part of the thread off and relabel it.

[Harold_V]

This really one of those time when you should split part of the thread off and relabel it.

I'd have to agree. We'll call it "shop heat".

Harold

[hammermill]

Flat plate stainless steel heat exchangers do exist and as they are stackable to build capacity may a dress your need to move energy from one loop to a different loop.

[Russ Hanscom]

We used some of the flat plate units in the past. Quite efficient and easy to adapt by adding plates. Pricey, but one of those items that might be found surplus at a bargain, oversized not being a problem.

[steamin10]

I have examined loop systems that use heat exchangers and heat absorbtion cycles, and I dont like the intial cost.

My area is basically many feet of sand over bedrock of slates/ sandstones, and limestone. Where sand wells cannot be blown in, they resort to 6 ft trenching for loops that are several times the house footage. The average temp at that depth here is 55 degrees, and they work with that. Heat pumps work best when they have a lot of passive mass in the home. (heat storage). A stable temperature is best, not yo-yoing the thermostat. It is the circulating lines that dump or grab btu's from the ground mass, that need the water. Well loops only hold water as a transfer media, to the closed loop system. Dry trenches are a bit less efficient, but are compensated with a few feet more of run. Obviously, a system that takes heat from cold air, or dumps heat into hot air, is working against itself. (Wall heat exchangers). The middle road of ground temperature is the key, but when you heat the ground, it is an insulator, and begins to hold that heat, for cooling, and oppsite for heating. So the key cost is the electric to run the system, and the efficiency of the deatails. I dunno, most companies lie about how great it is.

Unless you have a private wood lot, and lots of time and workout energy, dont give a wood furnace a second thought. If they become popular, there will be controls attempted to put in limits, and just the demand for fuel will change the dynamics of what happens.