Educate me on Sawzalls

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benshell
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by benshell »

For what it's worth, I used to hate cordless tools, and to be honest I still hate batteries but often it's worth it. I have Milwaukee M18 tools, and they've been amazing. One battery lasted five years, and the other is still going strong (almost six years). I think the one just died because it was completely drained, and then I forgot to charge it for a few weeks. That's not the way to treat a lithium ion battery. As a replacement I bought one of the slim M18 batteries (for only $40-something on Amazon) and it has surprised me as well. I always have a battery ready when I need it, and they charge really fast. So if I'm ripping plywood the batteries will die very quick, but they can charge while I'm measuring for the next cut. For more than occasional use I'd get a corded circular saw. But I don't think I've ever had a battery die while using the drill or sawzall. I just don't use them enough for that.

But for something you're going to use all day, I prefer corded. (E.g. I'm also into garden railroading, and unlike many I'd rather clean track once in awhile than buy and charge batteries.)
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by spro »

Those reconditioned sets of Milwaukee 18v are a good deal. I like my kit. Something special about Milwaukee. I bought a 28v Milwaukee circular saw and a sawzall at a "garage" sale for $20.00 each. They were/are perfect, heavy duty tools. I had to buy a large battery and charger (on sale) but they are worth it.
That's about the last time I went to a garage sale. Quit while ahead :) ?
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by rrnut-2 »

I use only Milwaukee in the business. Used and abused daily. I have mostly M18 and have been amazed at how long they last on the job.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by SteveHGraham »

warmstrong1955 wrote:Again.....maintenance.
Again...not necessary for corded tools, which cost a third as much and work better.
Nine tools....I have three batteries. I could get by with two....but I bought a high amp-hour battery to try.
You're leading us in an endless circle, so I have to keep repeating myself. Not everyone has an entire set of tools that all use the same battery. I have a whole bunch of chargers and incompatible batteries, and lots of people are in the same boat. The cordless tools I quit using due to dead batteries cost about $540. For that I could have a corded hammer drill, a corded impact driver, a corded circular saw, a corded angle grinder, dinner at Ruth's Chris...
Again....maintenance, and planning. Finish a job, charge the batteries. Next job, one goes dead, put it on the charger while you keep on working with another battery. Simple no?
Again...not necessary for corded tools. Put it down, pick it up two months later, it works. Simple, no?

If you want, you can say the same things again, and then I will do likewise. I have never missed the cordless tools I replaced.
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by SteveHGraham »

BadDog wrote:Changing Steve's mind on anything is difficult at best
It is difficult. When you're wrong.
As a former anti-cordless lobbyist myself
It's a serious exaggeration to call me an anti-cordless lobbyist. They're right for some people and wrong for others.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by warmstrong1955 »

SteveHGraham wrote: Not everyone has an entire set of tools that all use the same battery. I have a whole bunch of chargers and incompatible batteries, and lots of people are in the same boat.
And whose fault is that?
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by BadDog »

Wow, for a lawyer I shouldn't have to point out that I didn't say that about you, I said it about me, as an admission of my wavering positions over time. The implication was there primed for assumption, but absent the accusation.

So I once beat the same "cordless hell" drum that you are. Like you, I had a bunch of old school random sets that never took the same batteries, several chargers, always dead when I needed them or dying shortly after starting. Those tools ranged from B&D to Snapy, crap to premium, so it wasn't all cheap crap that I hated. For years, I was happy as a clam with NO cordless tools. But now as a DIY home owner who picked a single top rated brand and stuck with it (to share batteries and ONE charger) I couldn't be happier. I see and understand exactly where you are coming from, I was there until about 5 years ago when technology changed and I finally had a very positive experience that opened my eyes. So I didn't and don't believe I was wrong at the time. My mess was created over time and also a side effect of technology that wasn't quite ready for my wants and expectations. That changed, technology improved in a huge way, I gained a little more foresight in sticking with one brand, and I changed my position with the change in times. We may not agree, but I wouldn't presume to call you "wrong". Hard headed blinder wearing and myopic maybe, but not wrong... ;) But in all seriousness, the I suspect the biggest reason for the difference in opinion is you limited range of application. As I recall, you mentioned working around your property where an outlet is never far away, and being able to do everything with a short (or no) extension cord would certainly kill almost any benefit to even a great cordless system. But I have a 1.3 acre yard and a largish shed in the corner with no power and where lots of areas are well out of any reasonable extension cord range (which is why I have 2 x 100' 12 ga cords on reels - heavy hassles). There is also the hassle of cords to consider. Either the 1' cords (or none!) so common on tools today, where you ALWAYS have to drag out and put away an extension cord. Or the nice long cords that so easily get tangled, hung up on stuff, wedge in a notch, and broken or pulled out around the strain relief. Or the rats nest when you need to rotate through more than one tool. I've had my full suite of angle grinders (cut-off, side grinder, 2 wire brushes, etc. along with chop saw and sometimes others. The cords invariably get tangled among themselves. Of course that same suite in cordless would cost a fortune in batteries or constant swapping and eventual running dead. Oh the aggravation is unbearable, I should take up knitting...

I've still got lots of corded tools that get lots of use, and their hassles are part of why I love my cordless tools even when an outlet is within 8'.
Last edited by BadDog on Tue May 17, 2016 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by SteveHGraham »

warmstrong1955 wrote:And whose fault is that?
Seriously? It's a "fault" if I bought my tools one at a time, before they made the big kits, which don't have all the tools I use anyway? Am I legally obligated to buy more cordless tools?

I took a look, and the Home Depot price for a Milwaukee 6-tool kit plus one extra battery (the cheaper one) and three more bare tools comes to around $1400, if you don't buy the most expensive add-on bare tools. That's $155 per tool, for 9 tools and three temporary, second-tier batteries. The big batteries cost about $130 each, or $200 for two, so $330 for three. Ouch! And then you get the privilege of maintaining them.

You get a free radio, though. That's pretty sweet.

I'm glad we're only discussing tools, so I don't have to mention the top-rated cordless hand vacuum I bought, which slows down and dies in a few minutes. Same goes for the weak cordless leaf blower which also craps out long before I do.
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by SteveHGraham »

BadDog wrote:But in all seriousness, the I suspect the biggest reason for the difference in opinion is you limited range of application. As I recall, you mentioned working around your property where an outlet is never far away, and being able to do everything with a short (or no) extension cord would certainly kill almost any benefit to even a great cordless system.
That pretty much covers my position. I have a cordless Jobmax and a cordless DeWalt screwdriver which are very useful. They are very handy when I'm working on little fasteners and quick holes at the workbench. I also have a corded Jobmax, though, and I use it by default when possible. I wouldn't dream of using the cordless Jobmax with a flush-cut blade or for a sanding job of any size.
But I have a 1.3 acre yard and a largish shed in the corner with no power and where lots of areas are well out of any reasonable extension cord range (which is why I have 2 x 100' 12 ga cords on reels - heavy hassles). There is also the hassle of cords to consider. Either the 1' cords (or none!) so common on tools today, where you ALWAYS have to drag out and put away an extension cord. Or the nice long cords that so easily get tangled, hung up on stuff, wedge in a notch, and broken or pulled out around the strain relief. I've still got lots of corded tools that get lots of use, and their hassles are part of why I love my cordless tools even when an outlet is within 8'.
If I end up needing cordless tools, as you do, I will certainly buy them and brag on them while acknowledging that they are expensive and generally not as good as the real thing.
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by BadDog »

It may be easiest to buy whatever is cheapest on sale at the moment, but if you don't want to have a shelf lined with chargers and different batteries for everything then you have to pick a system at your comfort level (price/value) and stick to it. That's just how it is. If someone insists on buying a mishmash collection and then complains about the results, who's fault is it? The millennial answer would be "someone else's NOT MINE!" And there are cheaper options that Milwaukee's premium line of tools, plus most of those tools don't have usage patterns to justify cordless for most people anyway. Stuff like cordless circular saws require too much power and even with modern technology often can't hold out for more than the smallest jobs. Still nice for some, but for most really makes no sense. Other tools like a drill-driver or impact make so much sense I can't image being without for the innumerable small conveniences they offer, not to mention the big jobs they simplify. Particularly when I have a heavy extension cord with 3 way splitter fully occupied with work light, grinders, saws, who knows; and I don't have to worry about running yet another cord to run the drill-driver/impact.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by warmstrong1955 »

SteveHGraham wrote: Seriously? It's a "fault" if I bought my tools one at a time, before they made the big kits, which don't have all the tools I use anyway? Am I legally obligated to buy more cordless tools?
Well......yes.....yes it is.

I started out with a LED flashlight, 23 batteries & a charger.
Then I bought a 1/2" drill. Just the tool.
No rule saying I have to buy a kit. I have a rule to buy smart.
I've been buying more tools, one at a time, and tool only, so I'm not knee deep in batteries & chargers.
I'm up to nine, and I'm looking ordering a tenth one as I type.

If you own a DeWalt drill, why would you buy a Milwaukee grinder....or a JobMax whatever?

Sorry counselor....you're guilty.

:wink:
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Re: Educate me on Sawzalls

Post by warmstrong1955 »

SteveHGraham wrote: I'm glad we're only discussing tools, so I don't have to mention the top-rated cordless hand vacuum I bought, which slows down and dies in a few minutes.

I bought a Dustbuster PVH1800 in 2008. It's either sitting on the charger, or sucking up something.
Still works fine. Are you trying to vacuum your whole house with yours or what?

I have a Craftsman in my shop.....takes the same battery as my other tools.
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