Liability
Moderator: Harold_V
Liability
Has this topic been discussed? I'm sure most with legitimate business will have insurance, but what do most hobbyist do if picking up odd jobs? I've watched Abom79 take on jobs for racing motorcycle modifications and doing some things like that would keep me up at night worrying some insurance company is going to come for justice.
I do not even think I could buy protection for that sort of thing. I had considered a form stating the work is purely cosmetic/artistic and not intended for function, etc... Would need the real lawyerly wordings...
But what do we do?
I do not even think I could buy protection for that sort of thing. I had considered a form stating the work is purely cosmetic/artistic and not intended for function, etc... Would need the real lawyerly wordings...
But what do we do?
Standards are so important that everyone must have their own...
To measure is to know - Lord Kelvin
Disclaimer: I'm just a guy with a few machines...
To measure is to know - Lord Kelvin
Disclaimer: I'm just a guy with a few machines...
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- Posts: 1955
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:10 pm
- Location: Farmington, NM
Re: Liability
Good luck!
I have had similar thoughts and I have concluded there is no reasonable protection if someone is determined to screw you. Decided that any jobs I do are freebies, although there is still some implied liability.
I have had similar thoughts and I have concluded there is no reasonable protection if someone is determined to screw you. Decided that any jobs I do are freebies, although there is still some implied liability.
- warmstrong1955
- Posts: 3568
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:05 pm
- Location: Northern Nevada
Re: Liability
I don't build anything for anybody I have to worry about. Much of what I do, is simply reverse engineering. I just figure out ways to do it for less money, by quantity, or set-up or machining fixtures, whatever.
Some have improvements, and that is just what they are....improvements, to make them more robust if anything, and to have a longer service life.
Helps that the stuff I build, is from equipment I am more than just familiar with. I stay in my comfort level of design, experience & capability expertise.
I have had a customer or two, that supplied drawings that call out the wrong material,dims, and design criteria for some parts. I let them know, and have not had a problem changing their minds.
No worries that way!
Bill
Some have improvements, and that is just what they are....improvements, to make them more robust if anything, and to have a longer service life.
Helps that the stuff I build, is from equipment I am more than just familiar with. I stay in my comfort level of design, experience & capability expertise.
I have had a customer or two, that supplied drawings that call out the wrong material,dims, and design criteria for some parts. I let them know, and have not had a problem changing their minds.
No worries that way!
Bill
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
Re: Liability
No gun work, I don't have nor want an FFL. No auto/mc work except cosmetic stuff. Made a bunch of grease cups for a Pierce Arrow once, not much liability there, the thing gets trailered to a show once a year. Parts and pieces for antique machinery? Sure thing.
I think even if you do it for free, someone could still come after you.
A wise legal person once told me disclaimers are not worth the paper they are written on.
I think even if you do it for free, someone could still come after you.
A wise legal person once told me disclaimers are not worth the paper they are written on.
Re: Liability
Baseball bats to knee caps keep the ambulance chasers away
Re: Liability
You don't have to worry about an insurance company going after you. The hazard is the individual for whom you did the work.ctwo wrote:Has this topic been discussed? I'm sure most with legitimate business will have insurance, but what do most hobbyist do if picking up odd jobs? I've watched Abom79 take on jobs for racing motorcycle modifications and doing some things like that would keep me up at night worrying some insurance company is going to come for justice.
The safest route is to form a limited liability corporation (LLC), which will usually protect your personal assets should your LLC get sued. Until then, I wouldn't do anything for anyone if money will change hands in exchange for the work. In other words, see a lawyer before you have to see a lawyer.
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Music isn’t at all difficult. All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!
Music isn’t at all difficult. All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!
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- Posts: 2366
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:33 pm
- Location: Phoenix ,AZ
Re: Liability
Most of my side jobs come word of mouth from friends/or people that I have done work for. I have built up enough cars/MCs from the ground up to have a fair idea what will work/is safe. I don't think your job/project is a good idea as it sits and you don't want to do it my way! Hit the road Jack!! Besides you can't get blood out of a turnip ! {not worth a lawyer's time to get my minimal recoverable assets] Also see above post referring ball bats !
www.chaski.com
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- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:36 am
- Location: Bohemia, NY
Re: Liability
Stay away from any project/part that may find it's way onto a road /highway or up in the air that involves people. I have liability insurance for my business, and my broker told me in no uncertain terms... NO cars. trucks, planes, motorcycles or any part thereof .... and I have insurance for my work. (Yes I could do that work if I wanted to pay the ridiculously high premiums). Rudd said it already...NO Guns!
I agree a LLC is the way to go if you want to do work for others. Doesn't cost much to set up and it's protects your personal assets. God forbid you do something for someone , and that someone sends a lawyer after you, without the LLC or some sort of corporation , you ARE personally liable and stand to loose everything but the shirt off your back. Even if they don't win, the lawyer costs could sink you. Oh, that disclaimer, form, or letter that says your not responsible, or it's for show , it's artistic, etc, etc ,etc doesn't mean anything in a court of law....a good lawyer will find it's way around it.
This is just the reality of things today....you want to do the work, Protect yourself!
Nyle
I agree a LLC is the way to go if you want to do work for others. Doesn't cost much to set up and it's protects your personal assets. God forbid you do something for someone , and that someone sends a lawyer after you, without the LLC or some sort of corporation , you ARE personally liable and stand to loose everything but the shirt off your back. Even if they don't win, the lawyer costs could sink you. Oh, that disclaimer, form, or letter that says your not responsible, or it's for show , it's artistic, etc, etc ,etc doesn't mean anything in a court of law....a good lawyer will find it's way around it.
This is just the reality of things today....you want to do the work, Protect yourself!
Nyle
Re: Liability
www.incfile.com, make an LLC, stop worrying and make money. In CA there is a Franchise Tax of $800 annually. Much cheaper than getting sued. Or having to worry about getting sued.
Re: Liability
I machined for industry, and didn't have any concern about liability. In my sixteen years, I had no negative experiences, which I attribute to the fact that most of industry is above board, and not looking to profit by the sweat or misstep of others.ctwo wrote:Has this topic been discussed? I'm sure most with legitimate business will have insurance, but what do most hobbyist do if picking up odd jobs? I've watched Abom79 take on jobs for racing motorcycle modifications and doing some things like that would keep me up at night worrying some insurance company is going to come for justice.
I do not even think I could buy protection for that sort of thing. I had considered a form stating the work is purely cosmetic/artistic and not intended for function, etc... Would need the real lawyerly wordings...
But what do we do?
I might help to understand that the industry of which I spoke was the aero-space/defense industry, where pretty much anything you do is to given specifications. It makes you anal about conforming, and removes any questions about what may or may not be acceptable.
Armed with this information, it may help readers understand why I'm so black and white in matters of machining.
Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Re: Liability
One of the instructors at the Colorado School of Trades (gunsmithing) in Denver said, "The jury always rules in favor of the widow." It has stuck with me ever since.
When I was rowing the corporate galley, one of the part time vendors set up a LLC and the company I worked for insisted he carry $1,000,000.00 in liability insurance. Yes $1million. He could hardly afford to pay the insurance and make any profit beyond, so he eventually regretfully declined to quote.
--earlgo
When I was rowing the corporate galley, one of the part time vendors set up a LLC and the company I worked for insisted he carry $1,000,000.00 in liability insurance. Yes $1million. He could hardly afford to pay the insurance and make any profit beyond, so he eventually regretfully declined to quote.
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.
- SteveHGraham
- Posts: 7788
- Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: Liability
Talk to a lawyer about incorporation. The whole purpose of incorporation is to avoid liability.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.