Vegetable Garden Near Line of Shade Trees?

[SteveHGraham]

This is probably the wrong crowd for this question, since this is a board full of people who sit in shops under fluorescent bulbs, but I will ask anyway. If I want to grow vegetables, is it okay to put the garden close to a row of shade trees that runs north and south?

I am looking at a property which has two types of soil. One is not suitable for vegetables, but the other will work. Unfortunately, all of the good stuff is next to the property line, which has shade trees on it. I figure they would start interfering with the sunlight in mid-afternoon.

I don't really need to grow vegetables right now, but I'm one of those people who think a time is coming when certain segments of society will be marginalized, and I want to have food when that time comes.

One good thing about the area I'm looking at is that nearly everyone there is trying to give away horse manure.

[larry_g]

Yes you can grow in limited sun. Our old garden spot has trees blocking both morning and evening sun. The plants do not thrive or grow as fast yet they will produce. Now we are in the NW so our growing season is shorter than what I assume yours would be that far south. Go for it.

lg
no neat sig line

[warmstrong1955]

Also depends on what you're growin'.
Our garden has a full view of the south. If we don't shade the tomato's, we have fried tomato plants. Brown and dead, usually when they start makin' tomato's.
Peppers (chile, habanros, the gooduns) do better as much sun as they can get....and just enough water to keep 'em alive.
Cukes, green peppers, don't seem to care.....a little sun, a lot....

Lotsa stuff on the interweb about it.

Bill

[steamin10]

It depends on the climate zone you are in, but basically you cant have too much sun, only too much heat. You can grow things on gravel with the right amount of water and food, or bland beach sand.

We used to grow a 3.5 acre truck garden for cantelope, Zuchini, squashes, banana pepers and cubanells, pickling pickles, and salad cucumber on this swampy sand based soil. Every year we would put back manure from horses, the bedding, chips, and grass clippings. Many wood chips were spread over the ground, and would rot over a few years time leaving richer black soil. If you panned it like gold, it would wash away like muck, and you would have lots of yellow bank sand, that are the lake dune material here. The key for us was to tailer the soil with additions of varios humas, Trees along the West boundry fence began shading that plot, and production fell in our favorite melon spot. It was wetter there and they sucked up the moisture . Due to the slight slope of the ground, tomato liked the front of the property, and the peppers a little further back where it was dryer. Pckles and cukes were managed on raised rows and hills that sported clusters of seeds to spread out, and newsprint or straw were used to weed and clean the patch for dirt free vegs, and it plowed back into the ground for next year.

We took to thinning the trees in the fence, to open up partial shade that was blanked out by afternoon 2 oclock and later. but it got to be too much work as the trees just express growth upward as they do, and 'hog' the ground. Trees such as Walnut actually poison the ground with their leaves, adn similarly Oaks acidify the ground making them poor for veggies. Now overgrown, with 30 ft trees only rough grasses cover that West side, and many trees have been destroyed by a beetle invasion. It all sounds so labor intensive, but really the management is slow motion with eyes way down the road to aid and not fight with nature,, to do it in ways that serve you best. Water being keys just about the worst soils can be productive for years to come with additions of natural materials.

Nothing was more satisfying than people cursing their soggy ground here, and we grew a full and picturesque garden for years, not to mention the money we made selling the produce. Work? Sure, so is mowing stupid grass. I am old now, and slower than I used to be, but its not work if you love it. If you hate it, then dont do it. But I am a tree hugger from way back, It just takes some knowledge from an old hand to work with, instead against, nature. It is amazing what a little control can do for the wildness nature presents.

OK,, sorry to nut off like that, but I feel the passion with my rare birds, and my rusty tractors, and dogs running in circles in my domain. It looks like hell, being disorganized now, but it is mine, and it gives me peace. May you find your place to be as happy.

[NP317]

Thinking about post-apocoliptic survival:
If you need to grow food, you'll might also need firewood for heat and cooking.
Now those shade trees are looking useful...
~RN

[SteveHGraham]

Does anyone ever just REPLACE bad soil? I mean, it seems like I could get someone to remove a foot of dirt from an area around 100 by 50 feet and then fill it with manure, horse bedding, whatever.

[warmstrong1955]

Does anyone ever just REPLACE bad soil? I mean, it seems like I could get someone to remove a foot of dirt from an area around 100 by 50 feet and then fill it with manure, horse bedding, whatever.

Yup.
Have to around here. Nothing but sand. I till it up, dig it down a bit, add some real dirt and steer manure, and till it up again.
I also have lots of room to shuffle the location around each year, so I can reprep an area later for a year or two down the road.

Bill

[ctwo]

I would work the soil, make it what is needed. Remove the gravel sand and rocks and mix the depleated dirt with the manuer and compost dumpings. I've gotten truckloads of those and spread them around and in a year or two the whole place has nice lush rocking soil with lots of worms...

p.s., we've all updated to LED lighting now.

[Russ Hanscom]

Match the crops to the sunlight and you should be good. Given the problem you are anticipating - plan for a sturdy fence - see trump's plans.

Over the years, we have grown crops in sand and in clay, either will work given enough soil amendments

[neanderman]

Does anyone ever just REPLACE bad soil?

Sure, although often replacement is not necessary. Unless it's just clay, adding some peat, manure ans/or compost is all that's really needed.

You might also need to adjust the pH, depending upon what you want to grow. Adding lime, to make it less acid, or something like Holly Tone, to make it more acid, might be in order.

Contact your state Extension Service for advice.

[SteveHGraham]

Match the crops to the sunlight and you should be good. Given the problem you are anticipating - plan for a sturdy fence - see trump's plans.

I must note that one of the phenomenal things about this property is that I will be able to shoot in my own yard. Think how great that will be for reloading and checking with a Chrony.

[warmstrong1955]

If your plants don't produce, are you going to play Judge Graham, and Steve the executioner, and sentence them to the firing squad?