What's fair? (plumber)

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ctwo
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What's fair? (plumber)

Post by ctwo »

We have an internal clog, somewhere after a couple of T's and before the main, under the middle of the house. It drains just the kitchen and laundry.

Plumber tried to snake every hole and could not bust through. He snaked the main from a 4" vent pipe from the toilet, and verified that is clear. After 2-1/2 hours he said the pipes need to be replaced. They are a bit of a hodgepodge...

He offered to do it for $2500, or wants $200 for not clearing the clog. I'd rather put money towards buying my own snake. Those things are costly!

I crawled under the house to see where that pipe goes, it runs about 20 feet and then a 45 degree elbow down into the dirt about 4 feet from the toilet drain. It's really hard to get to that side. There is another such pipe that goes straight down into the dirt another 4 feet away from the bath sink/shower, and they both might head toward the same spot and connect direct to the main by the toilet. To replace that looks like a big job, and may even require tearing apart the bathroom, which would be a big job since it is all nice tile.

I was able to get my hand snake in about 20 feet from an open Y under there and it gets stuck. Maybe if I had a commercial unit it would go. Plumber was going in from outside, 10 feet further away. Well, it's still stuck. Maybe 10 cans of lye? Can you even buy it?
Standards are so important that everyone must have their own...
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Harold_V
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by Harold_V »

ctwo wrote: Maybe 10 cans of lye? Can you even buy it?
The days of easily purchasing lye (usually sodium hydroxide) are long gone, thanks in part to EPA.
It can be purchased, but it is not convenient to buy, and is often exceedingly expensive, very unlike the days you may recall. I recently purchased a 50 pound bag, which I use in black oxide treatment of steel. It is also an excellent degreaser for ferrous parts. It is available from sources who provide folks who make custom soap (as well as chemical supply houses), by the way, and may be found in your locale.

It might be worth a try to try some, and buying a large lot would likely be cheaper than buying several small lots. You might also enjoy success by using an enzymatic cleaner, which I have used on many occasions with excellent results. You can find it at most places where drain cleaners are offered. It's much safer to use than lye, and is actually beneficial if you happen to be on a septic system.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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ctwo
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by ctwo »

Thanks, Harold.

I bought the harbor freight "commercial" snake and cleaned it myself. It probably helped a lot knowing where the pipes go, but I told the guy just the same, and he did peak under the house, like just a peak...

Anyway, 30 minutes and I cleaned it myself using the same cleanout he used. I'll give him credit for loosing it up. I think $100 is fair for him considering.

Another friend that has a larger snake offered to come out and snake it for $250. No guarantees I'll assume...

I greased up my new snake for the next time and will look for some regular treatments on these old cast pipes.

This clog puts a small dent in my surface grinding ventures but it will be good for the long haul.
Standards are so important that everyone must have their own...
To measure is to know - Lord Kelvin
Disclaimer: I'm just a guy with a few machines...
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SteveHGraham
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by SteveHGraham »

They package lye in BAGS?
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
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Harold_V
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by Harold_V »

SteveHGraham wrote:They package lye in BAGS?
Chuckle! But of course! Nice, tough woven bags, more or less leak-proof. And made in China, too! All of it. Not just the bag.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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juiceclone
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by juiceclone »

a thought (from experience) u could add another cleanout point more directly in line with the place where the clog was.
It seems like the people who (arranged) the drains in some houses were sadists!
SteveM
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by SteveM »

Harold_V wrote:And made in China, too! All of it. Not just the bag.
Given China's track record, I'd be careful - that stuff could be poisonous :-)

Steve
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SteveHGraham
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by SteveHGraham »

I only buy lye in cardboard boxes with Chairman Mao's picture on the front.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by warmstrong1955 »

ctwo wrote: Anyway, 30 minutes and I cleaned it myself using the same cleanout he used. I'll give him credit for loosing it up. I think $100 is fair for him considering.
Proving the obvious....all plumbers are not created equal! ;)

I have a friend who owns a plumbing business here. He told me that if any of his guys walked off and left without fixing what he went there to fix, and wanted 400 bucks, they would be seeking employment elsewhere.
He's a stickler for customer service.

Bill
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
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Gary Armitstead
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by Gary Armitstead »

warmstrong1955 wrote:
ctwo wrote: Anyway, 30 minutes and I cleaned it myself using the same cleanout he used. I'll give him credit for loosing it up. I think $100 is fair for him considering.
Proving the obvious....all plumbers are not created equal! ;)

I have a friend who owns a plumbing business here. He told me that if any of his guys walked off and left without fixing what he went there to fix, and wanted 400 bucks, they would be seeking employment elsewhere.
He's a stickler for customer service.

Bill
Just to add to Bill's comments on REPUTABLE plumbers......my wife's family have been plumbers since just after WWII here in So. California. It is a small business, fathers and sons........their business motto was always "Your satisfaction, my guarantee". The grandson is STILL running the same business!

ctwo: What THAT plumber did to you is obscene! But these guys are out there, believe me. To Actually ask for $200 and not fix the problem, is unbelievable!

I also agree with Bill recommending adding another cleanout/cleanouts to give you access to any and all future clogs. My father-in-law added two more cleanouts to our sewer system (we had just one in an awkward position). The house is 64 years old and we have lived here 43 years. Still has the original iron sewer pipe UNDER the house. But everything else has been replaced over the years. Get rid of the "hodgepodge"......just friendly advice :). You and future reputable plumbers will be "happier" for it. :)
Gary Armitstead
Burbank, CA
Member LALS since 1980
Member Goleta Valley Railroad Club 1980-1993
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ctwo
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by ctwo »

I did not see all the tips the guy used, but I think he went with the spring auger bit and then a U-shaped thing. I used an arrowhead.

I'm really concerned about busting into this old piping, especially back by the main as it's at least a 20 foot crawl under the house. If a fitting or pipe breaks off, it would be hard to get in there with any tooling to fix it. Maybe where the pipe comes up out of the ground we could just cut it off and re-thread the pipe with a Y to the wall, and rebuild that end out to the kitchen/laundry.

It's not my house, but the owner has made a fabulous rental deal that comes with repair obligation. I get to fix things my way, or if I ask the owner they will hire contractors of their choosing on their schedule and just attribute the cost to my rent. At this point, knowing the situation and now having some tools and confidence that I can clean it out is probably all that's needed.

I let my snake dry out in the sun and gave it a good grease and lube while it wound itself back up so it's ready for next time.
Standards are so important that everyone must have their own...
To measure is to know - Lord Kelvin
Disclaimer: I'm just a guy with a few machines...
dirtcrasher1
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Re: What's fair? (plumber)

Post by dirtcrasher1 »

We had a clogged pipe at one of our apartment houses; It had backed up to the 1st floor.

Of course we tried to snake it ourselves and we rarely pay anyone to do anything we can figure out or already know how to do.

So, we snaked it and got it to drain and then it happened again a couple times a month later. We cleared it and it happened a 3rd time. So pops calls the drain guys and they come out, power snake the whole line as far as he could and cleared that much. He mentioned for another 150$ he could get a camera down there and see whats going on. I say yes, pops says "no way!!". At this point I felt it was necessary to get the camera in there but pops is just too stubborn. So, it happened again!! And I sarcastically said to him "can we get the damn camera this time dad!!" and he finally agreed.

What we found is the last 15 feet or so of pipe was so old that the pipes were made in halves and short sections and many had collapsed. Were not allowed to fix the part that ties into the city sewage. So, a day with a backhoe and a police officer was well on their way to repairing the problem once and for all. Late in the day the backhoe finds some unknown line. Well, it was a fiber optic line going 40 miles to Cape Cod, Massachusetts. So now we had to pay for a detail officer while they repaired their mistake.

6000.00$ later we had 17' of new 4' pipe from the basement to the street tie in. In this case, pops should have bought the camera. The plumber did what he could and it was always a temporary fix because my dad was ignorant...
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