To Goat or not to Goat?

The Junk Drawer is for those Off Topical discussions where we can ask questions of the community that we feel might have the ability to help out.

Moderators: Harold_V, websterz

John Hasler
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:05 pm
Location: Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by John Hasler » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:56 pm

The anti-glyphosate propaganda comes from the Greens, who oppose it not because they have any evidence that it causes cancer but because their ideology obligates them to oppose all use of "chemicals" and assertions about cancer frighten people. The propaganda is enthusiastically repeated by the "organic" industry.

Some of the surfactants used in some formulations can be toxic to cattle in large quantities. Some years ago some doofus sprayed a hayfield with a heavy dose of Roundup because he intended to plow the field up and plant corn there next year. He then immediately turned his cattle out on the field (ignoring the manufacturers recommendations) to graze down the dying grass. If he had waited until after the first rain he would have been ok.

Glyphosate is safe and effective and everybody and his brother makes and markets formulations of it. I know of no herbicide with a current patent with similar properties. Companies spend little money on researching new pesticides for obvious reasons. There may be patented glyphosate formulations, but those are not at all the same as new herbicides.

I use glyphosate on tall weeds in hard to mow areas and spot spray 2-4 D on the hayfields and pastures.

John Evans
Posts: 1939
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Phoenix ,AZ

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by John Evans » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:24 pm

Years ago here in Phoenix the local irrigation district would spray the open irrigation ditches with "ditch oil' with no ill effects on crops etc. Sure put the end to the weeds growing in the ditches though. I'm sure it was a close relative to diesel,just a real light oil.
www.chaski.com

User avatar
BadDog
Posts: 4529
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:21 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by BadDog » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:53 pm

Fair comment JH. I don't follow and try to sort the details of who's pushing what on such topics, but thought that the loss of patent protection was more recent and coincided with the apparent uptick in gnashing of teeth. And in support, it seems I'm only recently (in the last few years) seeing a ready availability of competing products and a subsequent drop in price. But maybe I'm just imagining things. Prompted by your post, I just looked it up and apparently the last of the relevant patents expired in 2000 according to the Wikipedia authority. So clearly I must have been downwind of one of the medical/recreational consumers of certain plant products. That's the only explanation (excuse) I can think up for having come to such an invalid conclusion. Thanks for the correction...
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper

User avatar
steamin10
Posts: 6684
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:52 pm
Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by steamin10 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:53 pm

In the environment a phosphate anything tends to linger to be diluted and not broken down easily by nature, thus giving lingering effects. Thats the rub. Stable insecticides like DDT last for years and migrate into other places not really beneficial. Diesel fuel , and any other oils from nature provide an energy source that is consumed by other parts of nature. Like the hydrate ice having ice worms living in it at depth. Or sulfur worms growing at impossible temperatures around thermal vents. Likewise, water contaminated diesel will grow copious amounts of black algae that will plug fuel filters with that muck. The tug Betty L. did this for me in a building swell washing the fuel tanks out. Thats where I got grey hair I think. A truck driving friend had a home diesel tank that grew the same issue, with only 2 gallons of gas in the tank being a cure for the growth. Nature finds a way to consume energy. So unless a flood of diesel is used, bacteria will eliminate the diesel at low concentrations. We tested an enzyme at work, and it proved effective for hydraulic oils and lube oils from trucks in the yard. About a hundred a day marked their territory like old dogs. The limestone that was the parking lot proved to combine with the drippings and change their nature so that common rain washed much away like soap, so the practice of sparyin some enzyme goop attracted too much attention and raised eyebrows, so it stopped.

For years my Uncle used a hatchet to chop the ivy vine near the base of the climbing treekilling the top, and an oz or so on the remaining vine killed the root at the ground. This manual method was tedious but stopped the spread of this obnoxious plant around his farm. He stayed away from chemical anything, as too expensive, preferring to cultivate the corn and beans to kill weeds and keep clean crops. His machines looked ansty, but they were always sprayed with used oils to prevent rust. Anything you touched had to be cleaned first, with, yup diesel fuel. Bolts came loose, paint stayed on, and we smelled like Ode da Exon. Aunt May required us boys to 'Wash UP" before supper to get that stink off. It never worked, but we got too hungry to argue.

In the last gasp of this business, we took Ellie to the goat vet, not being completely sure about the symptoms of hair loss around the eyes, crustiness and flakey coat. So the profesional confirmation is copper anemia, Not enough dietary copper, she is given an anti biotic for a URI that is related to stress, and coccidia, that showed up in stool sample. likewise shots were sent to b given to Carl for URI c/o cough, and a sack of dietary chemical powder for the copper and trace elements. No bugs or mange or critters, just deficient diet. Some flax seed oil is yet to be found for her coat and mixed with the pellets. So in conclusion we nervous nellies confirmed our guesses and spent a few bucks in the learning curve to protect our kids. Most notable is the lack of barber pole worms, or any worms for that matter in the samples submitted. Did I mention my goats are fun?

Next stop is the Chicken Nationals in Ohio that is a big deal for breeders. Some 7k birds will be on display and competing against last years best. This is a big deal, akin to Westminster for dogs. Education is where you find it, so Mom and I will slip away for another Motel weekend and enjoy the show. We have yard chickens, but thats it. Older and footed breeds we enjoy. They can be a hoot too. Did I say I like my chickens too?

Ok, enough of aminals and woosels. May you enjoy your digs as much as I do mine. If you dont, change it til you do. laters.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7015
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by SteveHGraham » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:32 pm

I have seen a bunch of high-powered plant killers at Rural King, but I'm not bothering with them until I see how well diesel works. The price is right.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7015
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by SteveHGraham » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:37 pm

Big Dave, these posts show how interesting your life really is. A little unusual, perhaps, but I suppose I am not one to talk.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

User avatar
Bill Shields
Posts: 5093
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am
Location: Somewhere in the World
Contact:

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by Bill Shields » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:13 pm

we have & use goats and they are very hardy critters that need little in the way of vet maintenance....as in the last time we had the vet out here for goat maintenance was to put down the old guy that was just plain old and couldn't get around any more.

MAYBE if you have a contained herd it is different, but our three (was four) do very well on food water and grazing where anchored.

they will eat anything down to a nub, including poison ivy.

keeping them contained IS a problem but having them on a screw anchored chain is very effective...of course they can get it wrapped around a tree.

In the past we used an electric horse fence which is easy to put up.

User avatar
steamin10
Posts: 6684
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:52 pm
Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by steamin10 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:53 pm

Here I am on an old samsung laptop, my tower failed and the spare wont run the start menu.

As I stated before, a neighbor kept goats for many years, and would stake them out with a spare tire to anchor the chain, the goat could pull the anchor a short distance for fresh forage. Sadly it was killed with many bites to the neck, blamed on one or more coyotes. I know we have them in the area, I can hear them yip at each other. Goats are pretty spry when they have room to run.in keeping Just try to catch one that wants to play, good luck. Animal crackers are a good lure when trained that way, chunked banana for heavier tasks. A bit of pellets in their bowl and they will follow you anywhere.

As for being unusual, I am notso sure. We tend to answer most questions with wrote answers and follow like sheep. So is having goats for a yard trimmer so odd? I dunno it is genius in certain ways. You have to have a tolerance for animals for sure. They can try your patience and temper. I find them doglike and engaging.

A post on Never enough time.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

User avatar
GlennW
Posts: 6648
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:23 am
Location: Florida

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by GlennW » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:42 pm

The house down the street had a dozen goats on maybe an acre and a half for the last year and you couldn't tell that they did anything.

Today the goats are gone and ten cows have taken their place.

We'll see how the cows do...
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

User avatar
warmstrong1955
Posts: 3136
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:05 pm
Location: Northern Nevada

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by warmstrong1955 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:24 pm

Neighbor had goats. Too many goats. Their place looked like the landscape of the moon. Goats will take down anything growin' right to the dirt, or more correctly....everything. Even the junipers, sagebrush and tumble weeds were devoured.
Not a lot of rain here, so things don't grow back like Florida, that's for sure. New problem...a lot of dust when the wind blows.
They moved out....new neighbors....no goats....and no mower. New problem....tall cheat-grass, and fear of fire. I went over there and cut a fire break between our place and theirs.....self preservation.

:(
Bill
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.

User avatar
steamin10
Posts: 6684
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:52 pm
Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by steamin10 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:31 pm

I have been told or warned that it is typical for a herd of goats to destroy a limited environment so that changes are invoked over a couple of years.
Goats do best in dry climates where there is ample water. In wetter climes parasites (worms) become a nemesis. Here in Indiana the spring and fall wet seasons support the spread of the infestations. Their natural mobility and desire to range about is a natural defense against this. Small paddocs work against you here.

Again cattle and sheep are grazers, goats are browsers, and like deer, will denude apple trees and brush they find tasty. (found out they will consume ornamental crabapple. So my Mothers dwarf tree is at risk)
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

User avatar
rudd
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: savannah ga.

Re: To Goat or not to Goat?

Post by rudd » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:31 pm

I just searched "rent a goat central florida" and got back lots of hits.

Post Reply