Engineers really know their stuff
Moderator: Harold_V
Re: Engineers really know their stuff
Another potential major issue with that bridge "assembly" is that it appears the entire 2-span structure would eventually be supported by cables from a tower.
My "instincts" say that placing that span with no vertical support, and then installing the cables, is ridiculous! The span is then required to entirely support itself, which it did not do.
Every other cable-supported span I have seen, erected the tower and cables first, and secured the span sections to those.
The post-collapse analysis and reports will be interesting.
Really sad that lives were lost.
Back to making my locomotive.
~RN
My "instincts" say that placing that span with no vertical support, and then installing the cables, is ridiculous! The span is then required to entirely support itself, which it did not do.
Every other cable-supported span I have seen, erected the tower and cables first, and secured the span sections to those.
The post-collapse analysis and reports will be interesting.
Really sad that lives were lost.
Back to making my locomotive.
~RN
Re: Engineers really know their stuff
A buddy down in Florida, who was in Miami on the day this bridge collapsed, opined that the bridge and the poor souls who were killed by the collapse were the victims of (his words) "affirmative action engineering." No way of knowing if that was a factor, but it wouldn't be the first time.
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Music isn’t at all difficult. All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!
Music isn’t at all difficult. All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!
- SteveHGraham
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff
Blasphemy!Or a lawyer.
I wondered about that, too. And they let cars run under it before they put cables on it.NP317 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:48 am Another potential major issue with that bridge "assembly" is that it appears the entire 2-span structure would eventually be supported by cables from a tower.
My "instincts" say that placing that span with no vertical support, and then installing the cables, is ridiculous! The span is then required to entirely support itself, which it did not do.
See my comments above, on my uncle's assessment of the Challenger disaster."affirmative action engineering."
The bridge firm may have hired sketchy engineers for diversity reasons, but if it was a typical Miami outfit, I would be surprised. Cubans have heavy-duty racism issues no one talks about. I would expect Cuban engineers, related to the firm's owner if at all possible, and illegal laborers.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
- warmstrong1955
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff
That was one of my questions. Was the truss strong enough to support itself, without the suspension? They say it was in that pdf I posted....but obviously not the case.
Normal procedure for building a suspension bridge, is the suspension is built first. The anchors, pylons, cables, the stays, go in, and the last thing is roadway. This one....bass ackwards.
Normal procedure for building a suspension bridge, is the suspension is built first. The anchors, pylons, cables, the stays, go in, and the last thing is roadway. This one....bass ackwards.
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
Re: Engineers really know their stuff
In the late 90's I worked at a limestone quarry in n/w Pennsylvania .
The job site had a relatively new to us very large dragline operating , the engineers made a few very bad choices with the machine that didn't end well .
First bad choice was the decided to short ballast the machine by some 2500-3000 tons ... yes that is correct 2500-3000. Tons .
Then a decision was made to move the machine onto spoil versus virgin rock to save three weeks of down time to walk the machine to its next cut .
The engineers gave a whole long spiel at the weekly safety meeting on how this was safe because the machine was under weight and the spoil would support it because of being under weight .
The first day of operations didn't go well , you could visibly see the machine rocking as it worked ( not good with an 11,000 ton machine ) rumor has it the operator complained but was told to keep working .
The second day things went very bad , the bench gave way under the machine and it toppled into the cut with loss of life and some severe injuries .
Being somewhat young at the time it made me take everything an engineer said with a grain of salt where safety came into play and short cuts where being taken in the name of costs
The job site had a relatively new to us very large dragline operating , the engineers made a few very bad choices with the machine that didn't end well .
First bad choice was the decided to short ballast the machine by some 2500-3000 tons ... yes that is correct 2500-3000. Tons .
Then a decision was made to move the machine onto spoil versus virgin rock to save three weeks of down time to walk the machine to its next cut .
The engineers gave a whole long spiel at the weekly safety meeting on how this was safe because the machine was under weight and the spoil would support it because of being under weight .
The first day of operations didn't go well , you could visibly see the machine rocking as it worked ( not good with an 11,000 ton machine ) rumor has it the operator complained but was told to keep working .
The second day things went very bad , the bench gave way under the machine and it toppled into the cut with loss of life and some severe injuries .
Being somewhat young at the time it made me take everything an engineer said with a grain of salt where safety came into play and short cuts where being taken in the name of costs
Re: Engineers really know their stuff
There was a time when there was a separate key for the glove box/trunk and the ignition. Reason being one could lock something of value in the box or trunk when you gave the key to valet parking. I'll bet valets look in glove boxes now and then, and not for gloves.SteveHGraham wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:26 am IAmerican engineers never figured out that a car should only have one key. Remember? Unbelievable. They finally stole the idea from the Japanese.
When it comes to engineers, I once worked on a Navy ship as a "designer" not an engineer. At a time when the aerospace project was winding down at Litton Industries, they had an over abundance of "aerospace engineers". To put them to work, Litton took on a marine engineering project, building an AE class of replenishment ship. The plans called for an overhead bi-rail system with rails spaced so many feet and inches apart. Here is where engineering failed. Aerospace engineers being used to working to very close tolerances, chose to apply a tolerance to the system of thousands of an inch. The result was the overhead crane would bind whenever the ship rolled or the temperature changed. This was a lesson learned by the newbee shipbuilder.
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi
- tornitore45
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff
More often than not there is no difference. If one can design then is an engineer, any engineer worth the title should be able to design. The real difference is in the experience, in other world how many times you learned a valuable lesson from your mistakes.as a "designer" not an engineer
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX
in Austin TX
- SteveHGraham
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff
Designers? Fresh meat! Somebody made the drawings for the Pontiac Aztek and thought they were okay!
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
- warmstrong1955
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff
That cat was a genius....compared to the guy who designed the AMC Pacer!SteveHGraham wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:10 pm Designers? Fresh meat! Somebody made the drawings for the Pontiac Aztek and thought they were okay!
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
- SteveHGraham
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff
That was his dad.warmstrong1955 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:17 pmThat cat was a genius....compared to the guy who designed the AMC Pacer!SteveHGraham wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:10 pm Designers? Fresh meat! Somebody made the drawings for the Pontiac Aztek and thought they were okay!
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
- warmstrong1955
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
- warmstrong1955
- Posts: 3568
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:05 pm
- Location: Northern Nevada
Re: Engineers really know their stuff
You make the call.
What caused 'em?
A: Opium
B: LSD
C: Cerebral flatulation
What caused 'em?
A: Opium
B: LSD
C: Cerebral flatulation
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.