Engineers really know their stuff

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tornitore45
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by tornitore45 »

Automobiles, like so many other items, are designed by marketing and passed out to the engineers to fill in the details.
Engineers have to meet marketing, safety, federal regulations (Crash, emission, mileage) there fore place the battery and the spark plug in the only place left.
I like knobs, but I also like a moderate amount of features. Marketing love 1000s of feature to please everybody and create sex appeal. I do not see the general public dealing with 532 switches and knobs like a jumbo jet cockpit to control the 2519 options, thus the GUI.
Certainly there are few aggravating instances of bad design, but all in all cars are better than ever.
I find that when I get into a Chewy everything is in the wrong place, Fords fit me a glove everything is where instinct drive me to find it.
I rented a car and when time came to pay the toll could not find the window control, it was where parking brake hand lever used to be. Who could have guessed to look there.
Mauro Gaetano
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BadDog
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by BadDog »

The problem isn't stupid engineers, though I often curse them and their bean counting masters too. The problem is that they have different priorities than owners, or those who work on them after sale. Their primary goals, as mandated by their MBA masters, it to create designs that maximize profit, period. That generally means that rule 1 is to make it easy and efficient to assemble, which often means sub-assemblies that are near impossible to service once assembled, and little or no consideration is given to any portion of maintenance. In fact, there is a counter motivation to produce things where having work done anywhere other than the dealership becomes cost prohibitive. The only counter to this is the first rule. There are also major efforts to reuse existing parts that may not be ideal, as long as it doesn't compromise rule 1. And so on, often with various influences that don't make any sense at all until you see the whole picture from their prospective. I think it was the previous (current?) iteration of the Ford truck that you had to at a minimum disconnect and jack up the cab of the truck if you needed to R/R the turbo, or pull one(?) of the valve covers. Something like that anyway...
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by SteveHGraham »

In fact, there is a counter motivation to produce things where having work done anywhere other than the dealership becomes cost prohibitive.
Preach.

This will probably start a discussion of Torx screws, which have no reason to exist except to prevent people from working on their own property.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by warmstrong1955 »

SteveHGraham wrote: Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:51 pm
In fact, there is a counter motivation to produce things where having work done anywhere other than the dealership becomes cost prohibitive.
Preach.

This will probably start a discussion of Torx screws, which have no reason to exist except to prevent people from working on their own property.
They exist to force you to buy new tools, so you can work on your own property.
;)

(That, and to give you something to complain about)
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
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liveaboard
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by liveaboard »

you got male torx and female torx... and the one you need ain't the one you got!
And they break, just snap.
I'm not a fan.
hoppercar
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by hoppercar »

I can't see cars being better than ever...they still average the same miles pergallon as they did 50 years ago...there way over prices for the average consumer, and I can't think of anything being built today that will be a classic is 20 years....it's all use it up, throw it away junk
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Steggy
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by Steggy »

SteveHGraham wrote: Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:51 pmThis will probably start a discussion of Torx screws, which have no reason to exist except to prevent people from working on their own property.
Torx fasteners were developed to make it easier for ham-fisted assembly workers to install screws. It may come as a shock to y'all, but I used some Torx fasteners in my F-unit. :D Their low, rounded heads are useful in some places, and unlike socket screws of the same type and size, are more readily torqued to relatively high values.

As for modern motor vehicles, they are, as BadDog noted, designed to be easy to assemble, not easy to repair. Getting one fixed is not the manufacturer's concern—if they had their way, you'd junk your car and replace it when anything significant needed repair. In that respect, Japanese-built front-wheel drive cars are easily the worst of the bunch.
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tornitore45
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by tornitore45 »

I can't see cars being better than ever.
If I liked points and dwell meter
Vapor locked carburetors
Iffy start in too cold or too hot weather
Dynamo instead of alternators
Loose steering
Vacuum operated wipers
Then I would agree that car technology has been stagnant for the last 60 years
Mauro Gaetano
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by SteveHGraham »

BigDumbDinosaur wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:22 amAs for modern motor vehicles, they are, as BadDog noted, designed to be easy to assemble, not easy to repair. Getting one fixed is not the manufacturer's concern—if they had their way, you'd junk your car and replace it when anything significant needed repair.
Based on my experience, this was Infiniti's actual philosophy back in 2002.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
John Hasler
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by John Hasler »

BigDumbDinosaur wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:22 am

As for modern motor vehicles, they are, as BadDog noted, designed to be easy to assemble, not easy to repair. Getting one fixed is not the manufacturer's concern—if they had their way, you'd junk your car and replace it when anything significant needed repair.

Cars come with warranties, and recalls happen.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by warmstrong1955 »

Warranties are pretty well covered in the prices we pay for the vehicles. We all pay for it, quite similar to what we pay for health insurance, and how it works. Or "FREE maintenance services for 50,000 miles". It ain't free. You paid for it. It's in the price we pay for the vehicle.
The two most trouble prone periods are when it's brand new....and then old & tired. The manufacturers know this, and have the new vehicle warranty costs covered in the vehicle price.

Recalls, are a different. They do have recall insurance, more similar to flood insurance, which we also pay for, but sometimes it doesn't cover all the costs associated with the really big disasters.
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
John Hasler
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Re: Engineers really know their stuff

Post by John Hasler »

warmstrong1955 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:21 pm Warranties are pretty well covered in the prices we pay for the vehicles. We all pay for it, quite similar to what we pay for health insurance, and how it works. Or "FREE maintenance services for 50,000 miles". It ain't free. You paid for it. It's in the price we pay for the vehicle.

Of course the customer pays for it. The companies have no other source of money. But if they reduce the cost of warranty repairs they get to keep the difference. If they increase them they have to increase prices to cover the added costs and then they lose sales to the competition.
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