Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

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SteveHGraham
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Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by SteveHGraham » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:31 pm

I was planning to use my tractor to pull a stump out of my front yard. Then I started thinking. My tractor is made for pulling, hence the name, but it only has 37 HP. My truck has 360 HP and 700 ft.lbs. of torque, which is somewhat ridiculous, given that a serious muscle car can get by with maybe half that much torque. The L88 Corvette only had 460 ft.lbs.

One would think having 10 times the horsepower (and smaller-diameter tires) would have to be a plus, even if the gearing is higher.

I decided to let Youtube solve the puzzle. I looked up videos of Dodge diesels pulling against tractors, and it looks like the Dodges either win or tie just about all the time.

Wondering what other people think about this.

I have an oak stump in front of my house, cut off flat with the ground. I have been thinking I might dig around the bigger roots, cut them with a chainsaw, find a way to attach a chain or strap, and start pulling. I don't have material for an A-frame.

I have also considered using a farm jack to raise it out of the ground. Either that or the tractor's rear hydraulics. But that could raise the tractor's front end and result in bad consequences such as death and embarrassment.

A lot depends on how easy it is to attach a chain to the stump.

Last edited by SteveHGraham on Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by warmstrong1955 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:35 pm

If it's of any size, rent a stump grinder, or hire someone who has one, and be done with it.
Roots are amazingly powerful.

And before you look, det-cord doesn't get the job done either....
(however, two sticks of 1-1/4" x 8" will launch it with a couple of well placed drill holes)

;)
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by SteveHGraham » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:43 pm

I would say this booger is a little under 2 feet across at ground level.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by warmstrong1955 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:48 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:43 pm
I would say this booger is a little under 2 feet across at ground level.
Yup....stump grinder job. A good one is bad-fast.
Dodge....2 Dodges....10 Dodges....and a fleet of tractors...ain't gonna cut it.
You could rent an excavator, but that is also a lot like work, and then you have a big hole to deal with.

Stump grinder.
Go down as far as you need.
Cover with dirt, and plant grass. What is buried, will eventually rot.

:)
Bill
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John Hasler
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by John Hasler » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:12 pm

Draft does not depend on horsepower or engine torque (assuming appropriate gearing, which any real tractor will have). It depends on traction, which depends on weight, tire area, and tire lug pattern (assuming a dirt surface). Weight is the dominant factor.

Another consideration is damage to the vehicle. You can't hurt a tractor by pulling with it.

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warmstrong1955
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by warmstrong1955 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:20 pm

If you are bored....you can calc the STE. (Stall Tractive Effort)

STE = (TORQUE) (STALL RATIO) (CONVERTER OFFSET RATIO) (XMSN RATIO) (AXLE RATIO) (12/Tire Rolling Radius) (EFFICIENCY FACTOR)

Then, like as John said, it's a matter of tire contact area, how many tires are actually driving, and weight to all and each, and the surface the tires are on....
What a Dodge or a tractor can do, is limited to the available friction, not the tractive effort.

Or....you can get a stump grinder.... ;)

:)
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by SteveHGraham » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:17 pm

Stump grinders cost money!
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by warmstrong1955 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:26 pm

Go shopping Steve....for a tree service around that has one.
I got a service in Alaska, that cut down the big dead trees, (bark beetles) ground the stumps, and were gone by the afternoon. 6 trees. 3'-4' diameter. And no houses were squashed in the process.
They were loggers however....knew their stuff.
I've seen DR ones advertised....but why by one? Gotta have a lotta stumps & work to justify that.

Some things....best to just hire someone.
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John Hasler
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by John Hasler » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:34 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:17 pm
Stump grinders cost money!
I burned out a 3 foot elm stump, after digging out around and under it. Took about three days, five gallons of kerosene, and a quarter of a cord of wood (supplied by the dead tree).

I've also used potassium nitrate stump remover on smaller ones. Dump five pounds of potassium nitrate (adding a pound of general-purpose plant food might speed it up) on top of the stump and cover it with a hay bale. For your stump I'd suggest a 4x4 round bale. Keep the hay wet if your climate won't do it for you. After a year or so remove the hay.

Or you could build a stump grinder...

Harold_V
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by Harold_V » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:41 am

SteveHGraham wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:31 pm
I was planning to use my tractor to pull a stump out of my front yard. Then I started thinking. My tractor is made for pulling, hence the name, but it only has 37 HP. My truck has 360 HP and 700 ft.lbs. of torque, which is somewhat ridiculous, given that a serious muscle car can get by with maybe half that much torque. The L88 Corvette only had 460 ft.lbs.

One would think having 10 times the horsepower (and smaller-diameter tires) would have to be a plus, even if the gearing is higher.
Doesn't matter.

Don't think so? Take a look at this video. The traction engine has less than 100 hp.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tr ... ORM=VRDGAR

H
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liveaboard
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by liveaboard » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:29 am

I have a 4wd 85HP 4 ton tractor; I've pulled out many dozens of trees and stumps on my property here in southern Portugal.

Around 8" is the point where it stops for pine, and my ground is 95% sand. Of course, that limits my traction just as it limits the hold the roots have. But there is a lot of force. When all 4 wheels turn, they dig wheel shaped holes, and as the machine sinks the contact area increases. Chain links and shackles get stretched or bent. I can't tell you any numbers, but that thing has pull.

A 2' diameter oak stump? I wouldn't say there is no machine on earth that can pull it out, but from a practical point of view, that stump just isn't pullable.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by SteveHGraham » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:00 am

Harold_V wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:41 am
SteveHGraham wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:31 pm
I was planning to use my tractor to pull a stump out of my front yard. Then I started thinking. My tractor is made for pulling, hence the name, but it only has 37 HP. My truck has 360 HP and 700 ft.lbs. of torque, which is somewhat ridiculous, given that a serious muscle car can get by with maybe half that much torque. The L88 Corvette only had 460 ft.lbs.

One would think having 10 times the horsepower (and smaller-diameter tires) would have to be a plus, even if the gearing is higher.
Doesn't matter.

Don't think so? Take a look at this video. The traction engine has less than 100 hp.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tr ... ORM=VRDGAR

H
What about the videos of pickups pulling tractors backward, even on dirt?

As for tree services, one gave me a quote to cut an oak in my driveway island. One thousand dollars, not including moving the downed tree. I have over a dozen oaks that are too close to my house, so you can see what relying on tree services would run me. I don't know what they would want to grind a stump, but I'm sure it would be worth it to try to pull it myself.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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