Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

The Junk Drawer is for those Off Topical discussions where we can ask questions of the community that we feel might have the ability to help out.

Moderators: Harold_V, websterz

User avatar
BadDog
Posts: 4743
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:21 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by BadDog » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:45 pm

Pulling yes, but typical stump "pulling" I've seen (as opposed to just the tension, cut, repeat, and final pull) with a tractor was more related to snatching (shock loading) and deadheading; which with filled tires, weights, and good grip can do some damage. I've also heard they can be damaged by engaging the diff lock while spinning one tire, something else that I can easily see happening if trying to "pull a stump". My understanding is that you stop, engage, and try again; not try to lock while spinning. Anyway, those are the things that I think about breaking a tractor diff. Pulling as intended, traction is the weak link, so they seem pretty much bullet proof in "real" tractors.
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper

User avatar
steamin10
Posts: 6712
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:52 pm
Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by steamin10 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:12 am

A friend has one of those green tractors that is 4 wheel drive. It has a bucket and a wide mower, used mostly for mowing service. The rt front gear assembly failed and was very dificult to get parts for. They found some used on the net, but he now guards the thing like a golden horse. If I cant use it, (and abuse it within my needs) I dont want it.

Tractors are meant to pull, and usually are hard on tires because of grip. I have a IH 140 that tried toclimb over when tied down to a stump. That was scary. When it goes vertical, you cant depress the clutch to disengage the drive.

Taking a run at something and shock loading the system is not smart either. I have taken to using straps for that reason, instead fo chains. It is lot softer in most cases on the equipment, while trying to horse things along.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

User avatar
liveaboard
Posts: 776
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: southern Portugal
Contact:

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by liveaboard » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:33 am

There are machines that people call "tractor" that are pretty much just riding mowers. Then there are "garden tractors", which are pretty much slightly beefed up riding mowers.
Then we get sub compact utility tractor [scut], and compact utility tractor [cut]; they have some strength, but nothing like the massive iron of a full sized agricultural tractor. Kubota makes a lot of this sort of thing.

Then we get to the "real" tractors, commercial work machines built to work all day every day for a decade or two. A huge variety of sizes and builds, weights and strengths.

SO when you say "tractor", you need to qualify that a bit.

I pulled out a lot of trees with mine; a much abused, 30 year old 4wd Italian workhorse.
I would be careful on asphalt; I think that in lower gears, the machine could break itself with that much traction. On dirt, it won't. The road behind my house has some holes in it that look a lot like my tires...

There is no center differential. If run on asphalt in 4wd, I'm sure something bad will happen. There is no warning light or anything, one just has to remember.

I've taken most of mine apart at one point or another. It's massive in there, beautiful and shiny, oily and huge. The rear shafts are 70 or 80mm, the clutch plate is like a trash can lid.

The gear box is an iron lump that weighs at least a ton. It has 12 gears forward and reverse.

But I'm careful about pulling on asphalt. All that weight on all that rubber makes me nervous.

Regarding standing it up; you're supposed to only pull from the drawbar. That's low and behind the rear wheels far enough that wheelspin should occur before the front lifts from the ground. Should.

It takes a big tractor to pull out a small tree. Tractors are tough, but trees are tougher.

John Hasler
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:05 pm
Location: Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by John Hasler » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:47 am

steamin10 writes:
Tractors are meant to pull, and usually are hard on tires because of grip.
I have a IH 140 that tried toclimb over when tied down to a stump

HITCH ONLY TO THE DRAWBAR.

Your line of draft must always be below the axle. Doing otherwise is akin to chucking up a piece of 1" pipe with 6' sticking out through the back of the spindle and then running it up to 500 rpm or feeding sheet metal into a table saw freehand.

John Hasler
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:05 pm
Location: Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by John Hasler » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:07 am

liveaboard writes:
SO when you say "tractor", you need to qualify that a bit.

I have a Ford 8N, an IH544, and a Farmall 560. I sold my JD 60. Those are real tractors (the 8N only weighs 2500lb but it was built to plow, not mow lawns).

User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7547
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by SteveHGraham » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:01 pm

I have a Kubota L3710 and John Deere 430 with a 60" belly deck. The Kubota is surprisingly powerful for its size, but sooner or later I want to get a 60-HP Kubota.

The John Deere is a real tractor, but just barely. It has hydraulics, and you can install a 3-point hitch and front end loader, but the loader will only lift 500 pounds.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

John Hasler
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:05 pm
Location: Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by John Hasler » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:47 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:01 pm
I have a Kubota L3710 and John Deere 430 with a 60" belly deck. The Kubota is surprisingly powerful for its size, but sooner or later I want to get a 60-HP Kubota.

The John Deere is a real tractor, but just barely. It has hydraulics, and you can install a 3-point hitch and front end loader, but the loader will only lift 500 pounds.
There are two John Deere 430s. One is a farm tractor last made in 1960. The other is a lawnmower.

I guess I'd have to call the Kubota L3710 a tractor, though "Japanese tractor" seems like an oxymoron.

User avatar
BadDog
Posts: 4743
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:21 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by BadDog » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:05 pm

I would love to have an L3710, but I make do with my B2150. Larger end of the SCUT, or small CUT, not enough power in the bucket to work well as a fork substitute, but it runs a 12" auger just fine for fruit tree ground/pit prep, pulling around a landscaping box (Gannon tumbler), and it drags a single tine subsoiler to prep for irrigation lines and such, or a middle buster for making shallow drainage runs, or once in a long while being useful with a rear jinpole. For a modest urban "horse property", it's quite handy within its limits.

It also came with a frame mount backhoe I plan to rebuild and put into service one day. Given my current rate of progress and pending projects, I should be starting on that in late 2036 if things go as planned. Well, realistically, add about 10 years to that given how my plans usually work out. :oops:
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper

User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7547
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by SteveHGraham » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:05 pm

John Hasler wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:47 pm
There are two John Deere 430s. One is a farm tractor last made in 1960. The other is a lawnmower.
You don't know the 430. It's a small tractor with a 20-HP Yanmar, a PTO, and hydraulics. It cost around $10,000 new, over 20 years ago. A lawnmower is a dedicated machine that can't run implements. The 430 is serious overkill for mowing yards. A zero-turn mower is more suited to the job, and a commercial John Deere zero-turn would be a lot cheaper than the 430 would be today. You could buy about two new mowers for the value of the 430's 1992 price.
I guess I'd have to call the Kubota L3710 a tractor, though "Japanese tractor" seems like an oxymoron.
"Japanese tractor" seems like an oxymoron? Do you know where tractors come from now, and where they have come from for years? You're going to be surprised. The industry is nothing like it seems. John Deere is Japanese; not totally, perhaps, but largely. New Holland has made tractors all over the world. My grandfather's old Massey-Ferguson was made in Argentina. Name a company; they're all foreign now.

Americans make very large tractors (above 100 HP), but the machines most people buy are made elsewhere, and that has been true for a long time. You can't buy a big-name small tractor made in America unless you're willing to take an antique.

Some big tractor companies say their tractors are "assembled in America." We all know what that means. Take a look at some tractors with Japanese names, and then look at "American" tractors. You'll see the same machines in different colors.

The Kubota is a very nice machine. A lot of people think they're the best small tractors. When I upgrade, I'm going to skip the American names (on foreign tractors) and get a bigger Kubota.
Last edited by SteveHGraham on Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7547
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by SteveHGraham » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:10 pm

BadDog wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:05 pm
I would love to have an L3710, but I make do with my B2150. Larger end of the SCUT, or small CUT, not enough power in the bucket to work well as a fork substitute, but it runs a 12" auger just fine for fruit tree ground/pit prep, pulling around a landscaping box (Gannon tumbler), and it drags a single tine subsoiler to prep for irrigation lines and such, or a middle buster for making shallow drainage runs, or once in a long while being useful with a rear jinpole. For a modest urban "horse property", it's quite handy within its limits.
I really got blessed with this thing. The guy who sold us this property had a golf cart, the Kubota, and the John Deere 430. He gave me a price so good, the golf cart, the 430, and a few years of gas and diesel were essentially free. If it hadn't been for him, I'd probably be running around on a Cub Cadet.

It's a great machine, but there have been a few times when I couldn't lift what I wanted to lift.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

User avatar
warmstrong1955
Posts: 3272
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:05 pm
Location: Northern Nevada

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by warmstrong1955 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:42 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:10 pm
It's a great machine, but there have been a few times when I couldn't lift what I wanted to lift.
Get used to it. I've spent years taking heavy equipment apart, so the pieces could be light enough and could be moved & lowered by the hoist into the mine.
You will always run across something that what you have isn't big enough to move it, and no matter of the size of the beast you have. "Wish we had a 988, instead of this puny 980."
If you keep getting a bigger one, eventually you'll have you a Cat 994, and be trying to figure out how to attach a backhoe to it!

:)
Bill
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.

John Hasler
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:05 pm
Location: Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: Tractor v. Diesel Pickup

Post by John Hasler » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:48 pm

StevenHGraham writes:
Americans make very large tractors (above 100 HP)

Above 100 hp isn't very large. Most farm tractors have been at least 100 hp for decades. The smallest IH Magnum is 180 hp. Above 400 hp is large.

Post Reply