Dog Lover Lament

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by SteveHGraham » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:56 pm

I will assume you are not imagining things if you think your horse knew when you missed a shot. As for holding its breath, I'm sure it was all about accuracy and had nothing to do with realizing it was about to hear a loud noise. I will take you at your word if you claim horses understand how rifle sights work. It probably reloaded cartridges during the off season.

Some day you must post a photo of the giant horse earmuffs I assume hunters use to protect horse hearing.

My friend really is a horse person. She lives on a farm with several right now, and she works at the large animal hospital at the University of Florida. Her family raised horses, and she was a big part of the local horse culture. She told me horses do their best to find ways to die (her way of putting it) no matter what you do to save them from their own...lack of brilliance. She gave me a long list of things horses do to try to off themselves, including eating too much, which is a very low risk for most other pets.

She didn't say a horse would react to a noise that was right behind it. She said distant lightning was sometimes enough to spur a fit. Any animal that lives in Florida and can't deal with lightning, from any direction, at any time, has a serious and species-specific handicap and will be provoked hundreds of times per year. This is one of the world's lightning hotspots.

Actually, I know of one other creature that could never deal with lightning. I knew an old man who used to hide under his bed during storms.

The family of another friend had a multi-hundred-acre thoroughbred operation near here, and he ended up becoming a professional trainer. He told me he believed a horse was roughly as intelligent as a chicken. He said they had personalities and were smart enough to hate to lose races, but that was about it. He showed me the way fences around here are designed. The upper boards are on the outside, so if a horse runs into one at top speed, it pulls the nails out and knocks the board loose instead of delivering a fatal blow to the horse's head. This does not suggest great cleverness on the animal's part.

I think most people know that cattle and pigs don't usually kill themselves by gorging on their feed or running into fences. I'm not suggesting cattle are bright, but when my grandfather gave his cattle silage, he didn't have to chase around behind them, making sure none of them got tummy aches. You can put cattle in barbed wire and never have a problem, and if you use a board fence, it doesn't matter which side the nails are on. You can also shoot around cattle. They don't seem to care. I have noticed that they hate dogs, however, and will even try to chase them into a truck's cab.

My parents grew up in Appalachia, back when people actually rode horses and mules instead of driving. My mother always said a horse would stand in the rain while a mule walked to cover. My dad told me a horse caught in a fence would tear itself to pieces trying to get loose, while a mule would wait for help. He also said his grandfather complained that a horse would eat twice as much as a mule yet could only do half as much work.

I don't know if the things I have been told are true. I am NOT a horse person. The only horses on my property have been reduced to really nice jackets and shoes. They wear better than cowhide, and the skin is naturally waterproof. Also, thick horsehide will protect you from road rash when you fall off a motorcycle. It's considerably better than Kevlar. I have pants made from it, too, but I put them away because am afraid of attracting the wrong kind of attention, if you get my drift. You can wear them on an enduro ride in Utah without confusing anyone, but I wore them to South Beach.

While I was making a real effort to get information on horse intelligence, due to the issue with the meddling neighbor, I got conflicting information, and it seemed to me that a person's opinion of horse intelligence depended a great deal on how much they liked horses and not all that much on how well they knew them.

If I had horses and lived next door to a person who enjoyed shooting, as was his legal right, I would take the time to learn about desensitizing my animals. In fact, given the lightning we have here, I would do that even if no one around here fired guns. Seems like common sense, and I can't see how it would be fair to an animal to fail to provide this training.

Under Florida law, if my neighbor's horse runs into a wall and dies while I'm squirrel hunting, there is no possibility that I can be sued or arrested; the cops would get back in their car without talking to me. Even I know that horses can be desensitized (hello, fox hunting, cavalry with rifles, warmstrong in predator mode), so I don't see how a horse owner can hold me responsible for his or her own slack attitude.

I have used my pasture for practice with a .308, and I have no plans to make any changes. I believe the continued influx of northerners presents a real danger to the local way of life, and if we make any concessions, they may become permanent. Eventually, they will win, because Florida is never going to stop filling up with socialist geezers.
If some one wants to break dance, I dont have to join in, just wait for them to tire. People that launch fireworks, eventually run out. It is the fear that they are not like you that drives some people to be neurotic, to control what they dont understand is a freedom. I like my choices. YOU should allow for your activities to build awareness of your freedoms, that everybody should have. Including the ability to disagree.
I agree 100%. I have a neighbor who shoots fireworks a lot. I have no idea why. I find the noise slightly annoying, but my annoyance is dwarfed by the pleasure I get from knowing he is free to do it. I am glad to put up with the noise. I would never dream of complaining, and I hope he keeps it up.

I heard a lot of shots at night last month. A neighbor called to explain that he was killing armadillos and possums. Nice of him to call, but totally unnecessary. I told him I hoped I wasn't bothering him with my shooting, and he said he and his wife might come join me if they heard me. He doesn't care at all. Of course, he's from Alabama.

Is there a good excuse for failing to get a horse used to gunfire? Since my horse experience is mainly limited to putting jackets on and applying glue, I would not know.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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warmstrong1955
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by warmstrong1955 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:07 pm

I grew up on a ranch. I've moved more cattle, chased more strays, & rode more desert than you can imagine.
Sorry....your friend is full of it.
I will leave you and the conversation, to your own misguided beliefs, but with mention, that some of my best friends have been horses. Smart friends.
They are true friends, once you gain their trust. They are smart, and smarter than dogs. They are loyal to a fault. They learn.
Things that lawyers are incapable of comprehending...which.....horses are also smarter than.....
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by SteveHGraham » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:05 pm

As long as you're not emotional about it.

I have often pointed out that lawyers are not particularly bright, but then I came to law via physics. For me, moving to law was an unpleasant downward move driven by burnout. I wanted a much easier field, and I got it. A lawyer with a fairly common IQ of 135 is probably smart enough to be on the Supreme Court. My dad's IQ is only 144, and he was the best lawyer I knew.

My evidence professor loved to remind us that lawyers were only a little above average. He said, "You're smarter than the average bear. That's all."

If horses are actually smart, it sounds like there is no excuse at all for not desensitizing them.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

Harold_V
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by Harold_V » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:52 am

I'm taking note of the personal attacks. Knock it off.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by SteveHGraham » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:17 pm

All in good fun. Just to play devil's advocate, Mr. Ed was smarter than his owner, a college-educated architect.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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steamin10
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by steamin10 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:00 am

My experience with horses is very limited. They are creatures of habit and are smart enough to know who they can trust and who they dislike.

When I was 8 or 9 my Uncle had an ornry old mare that was a Shetland. She was old but tolerated us kids for lack of anything to do. When she got tired of our antics, she would scrape us off on a apple tree branch. She would head for the hay in the barn and that was it. We of course took over caring for her need when we were visiting, and that was a problem a times. I entered the stall and was too quiet and backed up against her and she launched a haymaker kick that should have broken me in half. I had starlted her and when I leaned against her, she threw me across the stall and into a heap in the corner, and stared. I always let her know when I entered after that and gave her a nice pat and rump rub, and she would respond with a sigh or wicker. Clearly my fault. We got along famously after, and she enjoyed apples or pears or something from the garden that I bribed her with. She was smart too, and could undo the latch on the stall in seconds after I called to her, otherwise she did not care. She did not do that for anybody else, and wanted to follow me like a homesick pup. Uncle said she actually pouted when we left, and wouldnt do anything, like a brat. She died at the age of 15 from pneumonia one winter, and I remember her well. I rode her halter and bareback.
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We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
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spro
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by spro » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:11 am

Thanks gents. This so good. I will back out of this in a minute. Before I leave, I will recount my first experience on a horse. Big old horse put out to pasture. Sure I was a little kid then and we sort of knew whew. I looked at that horse from the size that I was at that time. That horse was staring at me me as i examined it's mouth and jaw line. The bit had been pulled back so deep and so long I almost cried. That horse was looking at me and couldn't tell me anything except i was another kid.

spro
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by spro » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:49 am

Horses were the original four wheel drive and centuries later, try to get back to that.

spro
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by spro » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:26 am

Well it does come back to the wonderful canines. Each different and protectors . Luv them no? Then horses and not everybody has a horse. It is interesting how horses see 270 degrees around their head and alert what is going on. Gifts or maybe the horse sees it a different way of course.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by SteveHGraham » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:07 am

When I was a kid, my grandfather and great uncle loaded me into a pickup and took me to the stockyard in Paintsville, Kentucky. I didn't know what was going on. They bought two ponies and brought them home. For a few years after that, the grandkids rode them on rare occasions. I never enjoyed it. I had no instruction, and all I did was bounce up and down and pray I wouldn't fall off.

Later, I learned that my grandfather had said he didn't care if I only got to ride once; buying the ponies was worth it. Apparently, I was foremost in his mind when he bought them. I didn't know, so I was not grateful or enthusiastic. That's too bad. It was quite a gesture.

That's most of my lifetime experience with horses. Never had any interest in them until I started shopping for motorcycle jackets. I am surrounded by them now and still prefer the utility cart.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

spro
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by spro » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:31 am

Great conversations. Dogs require walking and sometimes at night. Women need protection walking at night. That's just a fact and no thug is getting past her loyal companion.

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liveaboard
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Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by liveaboard » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:59 pm

Long ago, walking through an inner city park late at night [with my dog], I saw a beautiful woman striding through. It took me a minute to figure out why it was odd; well of course, because it was late in an inner city park and she seemed completely confident.
Then I saw her great big dog trotting along behind her; and it all made sense.

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