Dog Lover Lament

The Junk Drawer is for those Off Topical discussions where we can ask questions of the community that we feel might have the ability to help out.

Moderators: Harold_V, websterz

John Evans
Posts: 1995
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Phoenix ,AZ

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by John Evans » Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:39 pm

Well do to the local ethnics thinking Xmas eve is a good time to set off fireworks and fire guns ,I discovered the 85lb German Shepard is terrified of same !! I knew he did not like thunder but having a 85lb big boy trying to be a lap dog was a new experience ! Had to bother the Vet at home for dosage but luckily I had some canine tranquilizers of the shelf for another dog. ^$%*$)^%)*)^ IDIOTS !!
And due to air quialty we've had no burn days since Friday last week. Well I have a big apartment complex right behind my house and of course they have fire places. Renters who pay NO attention to such rules and don't crack a window for fresh air so smokey fire to boot !
Rant off !
Merry Christmas to all !!!!
www.chaski.com

User avatar
liveaboard
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: southern Portugal
Contact:

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by liveaboard » Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:29 pm

Hey, at least it was your own dog.
I had the same thing happen when I was watching TV at a freind's place, and he went out to get some fries; there was a sudden thunderstorm, and the next thing I knew his huge fearsome dog was shivering on my lap.
I knew the dog a little, but it was not a little dog.
I was covered with fur after, and my friend came back and laughed his behind off.

TomB
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:49 pm
Location: Southern VT

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by TomB » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:38 pm

I ended up with a hybrid Black Lab that had been bought from an expensive CA kennel that deliberately bread dogs to correct some of the faults in the pure breeds. This one lived to 18 years, had no hip displasia and stayed as thin as a 2 year old lab. Further it was wonderful with people, even strangers and especially with kids. Well we lived on a ski mountain and they did fireworks about 6 or 8 times a year. Dutches would, any time she was allowed, run out to where they were lighting the rockets, get her nose in close then watch the rocket fly and then try to catch the debris that fell. The guys lightening off the show said she would get closer to the rocket than they thought she should but she had a limit and could not even be pushed closer. The customers would be on the lodge deck maybe 150 feet from the launch point and they would be engrossed by the black dog running around the launch area. The most common comment I heard back was "I can't believe she likes the fireworks, my dog is in the back room under the bed with the pillows pulled down over her head."

But that is the way she ran and she ran that way until a month or two before a spleen tumor killed her. Best dog I ever had.

Tom

User avatar
liveaboard
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: southern Portugal
Contact:

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by liveaboard » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:03 pm

I had a dog like that too; we used to shoot off rockets on new years eve near the beach, and my dog and his dad would be trying to catch them as they took off. Sometimes they got singed, so we started holding him on a line.
But he was just SO disappointed. It was his favorite time of the year.
He was pure shaggy mutt, and we sure miss him.

User avatar
BadDog
Posts: 4739
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:21 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by BadDog » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:09 pm

Sorry to hear that. Not sure why, but GSD seem more often strongly affected by such noises, at least in my experiences. My own GSD (Tyr, the black and silver you met) is just the same. But the morons around here don't just come out on holidays. Take your pick of any stupid sporting event, and any other random events they are happy about will do as well. I've heard more than once what really seem to be gunshots (Shannon's law anyone?), and having shot quite a lot myself (in suitable areas, i.e. not neighborhoods), I'm pretty familiar with the sounds. I'm sure you've noticed the news regarding random "explosions" at random times of day around here for the last few months as well. Some of that's been around my area as well.

I've had him in my lap, or leaping into my arms at full tilt like he thinks he's a small yip dog. Wild eyed and visibly trembling. My wife says she sometimes has a GSD shaped hat because if I'm not available he seems to think the safest place is draped over her shoulders on the couch. Not her lap, but on her shoulders. His next fallback is my side of the bed. We have tranq's as well, but it doesn't help when the low IQ no education morons will fire off for any or no reason at any time of day or night.

A neighbor down the road had to put down one of her horses last year because it panicked and injured itself very badly. She also had tranqs, blankets, and desensitizing noise generators for predictable times, but sadly she wasn't aware that there was a big soccer game going. LEOs couldn't care less, laws or not, already stretched thin. I could go on.

In the modern social norms I'm not very popular for my views on ideal outcomes of their behavior, but frankly, sometimes stupid should hurt... very badly...
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper

User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7530
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by SteveHGraham » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:09 pm

Where I live, it's legal to shoot on your own land, and the neighbors are expected to deal with it.

One of the neat things about living here is that when I shoot out back, I often hear the neighbors start shooting. Someone across the highway shoots a rapid-fire weapon. I keep wondering who that is.

I had a lady complain that her horses were scared. I guess she didn't know how things worked here.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

John Evans
Posts: 1995
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Phoenix ,AZ

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by John Evans » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:28 pm

Stupid should hurt ! Terminally ! Some going off around here tonight already,was out in backyard a bit ago and a random bang went off and my little Shepard mix girl was scratching at the door on her back legs wanting in. And yes a few earlier sounded like a shotgun more boom than crack. Funny thing is Rex I did not seem to be bothered ,he was really a laid back GSD.
www.chaski.com

User avatar
BadDog
Posts: 4739
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:21 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by BadDog » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:56 am

Rural areas are different. When I lived on 26 acres in rural N AL right near the TN line, gunshots were to be expected, particularly in the winter hunting season. I used to zero my scopes and shoot a variety of firearms on my property. Dogs and livestock got pretty used to it.

But this the areas John and I are talking about are by vast majority residential neighborhoods with some light commercial mixed in. My neighborhood is somewhat unusual in that it's 1+ acre properties and zoned agricultural, which is why we can have horses and other livestock. No shooting is ever allowed other than for self defence, and a limited array of non-exploding fireworks are allowed only a few days of the year at specific times. We've got a particular demographic with communication with frequent "documentation" issues that don't seem to care about either restriction, and are well known/documented to fire guns into the air for arbitrary celebrations including their teams doing something they like, weddings, birthdays, etc. That specifically is what led to what is called Shannon's Law when a descending bullet fired some distance away (at a wedding if I recall correctly?) killed a young child playing in a park. Of course they aren't the only fools contributing to the problem. At least a few are ignorant white trash living not too far away from me who will angrily assert that they "have a right" among other statements making the depth of their ignorance all the more apparent when confronted about firing aerial mortars (illegal any time of year, and also fired when we have burn bans in effect) to celebrate their team scoring a point. That was the specific moron responsible for the horse being put down.
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper

User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7530
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by SteveHGraham » Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:44 pm

Florida had an interesting situation for a while. While our laws were being adjusted, there was a period during which anyone anywhere in the state could legally shoot in his own yard. They eventually put in a maximum population density requirement of one person per acre.

There have been problems with urban retirees from the northeast coming down here and trying to impose Seinfeld-universe customs on their neighbors. It has to be resisted as long as possible.

I saw an interesting thread on a horse forum. Someone whose horse got spooked complained, expecting everyone to join in and excoriate her neighbors. They did just the opposite, hammering her for trying to tell her neighbors what to do. They told her she should have been conditioning her animals to remain calm around noises.

My best friend in this area is a horse person, and she told me horses are so stupid they will react not just to gunfire but to things like cars backfiring and the sound of lightning half a mile off. Imagine how far out in the sticks you would have to be, if the rest of us were held responsible for the reactions of pets hundreds of yards away. A noise law like that would effectively ban outdoor shooting over much of the US.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

User avatar
BadDog
Posts: 4739
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:21 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by BadDog » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:48 pm

You have a fair point. If we were in a more rural area, I would be on the other side of this discussion. But that is not the point of this discussion.

My neighbors often ride their horses through the neighborhood and mountain preserves where allowed, and those that come out appear well conditioned to life at the city edge. But that's not the same as a dozen large mortars (not professional, but really big reports for personal) going off all at once not far away on an otherwise quiet still night after weeks of relative quiet. And those fireworks are way over the barrier to illegal here even on the holidays when smaller fireworks are allowed.

There are lots of reasons for those laws including fire risk (there was a house fire here a year or so back that was blamed on illegal fireworks shot from neighbors yard), noise, folks with (actual) PTSD, protecting idiots from themselves, all sorts of reasons. But in the end the law exists. Just because I don't like the ridiculously low speed limits imposed due to some unknown to me reason (that may not matter to me), I don't get to decide that I'm just going to ignore it and expect to not get a ticket. But apparently fireworks laws don't apply if you disagree.

All that said, I'm not a hard line "IT'S THE LAW" proponent on this point, and neither are my neighbors for the most part (including those with horses). Independence day and New Years we know what to expect and manage. And as long as they do so responsibly, I enjoy the mortars as much as anyone, in spite of them being "illegal".

And the firing of firearms for "celebration" in residential neighborhoods (often high density cookie cutters) should go without saying. But unlike fireworks, at least the cops will apply some effort to deal with those who do so anyway.

On a tangent related to your comment about NE immigrant infestations, I have some first hand experience with that. I had a nice house in a gated community in WPB that happened to adjoin a golf course. They have a law regarding family housing percentages when building out those golf course communities. Something like 25% must be for "family housing" as opposed to "retirement", and in my neighborhood was one of those. Trouble was, the retirement communities sold out to retirees right away, and those that went on the market were very expensive, so we got a lot of grumpy old entitled NE trash (not all were terrible, but a substantial number were) on our side too. Then a group of honest to goodness NY lawyer friends decided to move down together, and bought several houses in our neighborhood. Being lawyers and retired, combined with those already there, they easily managed to take over the HOA and get themselves voted to all key positions. They then used the CCRs to make life miserable for the families living there. They removed the play areas due to "excess maintenance" and "liability" issues, replace them with small tropical jungles with "keep off" signs around. Converted the basketball (etc) area, converted to tennis courts, and set minimum age without adult and limited access times without permits (which of course they could get at will). Some things they did seemed clearly in violation of local laws protecting from just such abuses, but they knew and played the system to their advantage, and younger families with jobs were eventually worn down and started moving out. Last a I heard a few (10?) years back, it had become what they wanted, a defacto golf course reitree community. So much for those laws protecting owners from HOAs, and why I'll never tolerate one again.
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper

User avatar
warmstrong1955
Posts: 3271
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:05 pm
Location: Northern Nevada

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by warmstrong1955 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:16 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:44 pm
My best friend in this area is a horse person, and she told me horses are so stupid they will react not just to gunfire but to things like cars backfiring and the sound of lightning half a mile off. Imagine how far out in the sticks you would have to be, if the rest of us were held responsible for the reactions of pets hundreds of yards away. A noise law like that would effectively ban outdoor shooting over much of the US.
Sorry....horses are not stupid. Your friend is not a horse person.
My horses, were quarter horses, and hunting horses. 'HD' was my best one. He'd hold his breath when I leveled my rifle. Never flinched a bit when I fired. If I missed, he'd turn his head and look at me like...."what the hell was that???"

They will react to things they can't see, and don't know where the sound came from. Simple....take a pop bottle, and throw it out in front of you & the horse. It hits the rocks, shatters....and your horse doesn't care.
Toss one behind ya. Hang on when it shatters on the rocks.
Just like people.
SURPRISE!
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.

User avatar
steamin10
Posts: 6712
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:52 pm
Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip

Re: Dog Lover Lament

Post by steamin10 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:09 pm

I live in a citified rural area that is zoned for agriculture. Although we are somewhat crowded, the state laws allow shooting on your property without specific range or backstop. YOU are responsible for any results. I have in past years actually thrown LEOs off of my property, but not without some debate. Most are ignorant of the effect of law and think the costume they wear says it all. They are only a part of the system of OUR government, and that is what is important. What becomes forgotten is the courtesy that is required for good conduct towards your neighbors, so as to not be a threat. I believe that I enjoy a certain amount of freedom to act, because past conflicts have shown that I not only stand my ground, but force what is real and true to be followed.

We harbor a number of animals, and the guinee pigs in the rescue are kept with music of the rock and roll style playing in their holding room all the time. Such background noise drowns out any fears the animals have and they then do not startle into running and avoidance actions that could possibly hurt them. They then become accustomed to movements and people being around, and are a lot tamer to handle. This is important when a youngster grabs one a they briggle out of hand due to fear. They are less likely to be damaged when calm, but improperly handled.

There is no such thing as common sense, people do what they feel at any given time. If some one wants to break dance, I dont have to join in, just wait for them to tire. People that launch fireworks, eventually run out. It is the fear that they are not like you that drives some people to be neurotic, to control what they dont understand is a freedom. I like my choices. YOU should allow for your activities to build awareness of your freedoms, that everybody should have. Including the ability to disagree.

The American heritage is based on honesty and fair play. A work ethic that has become corrupted. We now have porch pirates and internet fraud that violates the public trust, and undermines that system. It is also why when given the power, we hold such positions as police and government, to a high standard, and violations of that trust and power are treated harshly, as they should be.

Why would you want to buy a house on an airport, or golf course, to run horses? I would question the appropriate placement. Like skateboarding on the freeway, it may not be in your best interest, although possible. And dont forget some people are just afraid of change. I myself like consistent actions. What was, will always be. ( locked in yesterday. Lookout )

OK Soapbox put away for now, thanks for reading if you got this far.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

Post Reply