Something to worry about

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Harold_V
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Re: Something to worry about

Post by Harold_V » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:52 pm

stevec wrote:1) If it isn't broke, repair it untill it is....If it isn't broken, repair it until it is.

2. Everyone that lays brick needs their trowel.... Everyone that lays brick needs his/her trowel.

3. Your book is laying on the table....... Your book is lying on the table.

4. Mix the epoxy components together quick or it will set up before you can use it.... Mix the epoxy components together quickly or it will set up before you can use it.

5. Alot of us have ran a lathe for many years...... A lot of us have run a lathe for many years.

Them wood be my gesses :wink:
I'm afraid you did far better than I would have.

Harold

Good exercise, Marv.
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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mklotz
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Re: Something to worry about

Post by mklotz » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:34 pm

Well, it's nice to see that there's at least one person besides Harold and me who is still following this thread. The sad part is that the folks participating here are the ones who need it least; the ones who could really benefit from it will never read it.

You nailed #1. 'Broke' is the past tense of 'break'; the required adjective is 'broken'.

#2: "That" is used to refer to inanimate objects. "Everyone" clearly refers to a person, so the pronoun should be "who", not "that". "Their" refers back to "everyONE" which is clearly singular. "Their" is plural and a singular pronoun is needed. Formal English says that when the sex of the antecedent is indeterminate (we don't know if everyone is male or female), we use the male pronoun, thus:

Everyone who lays bricks needs his trowel.

Using "his/her" in place of "his" certainly isn't wrong but it does sound a bit too politically correct for my tastes. Now that the yahoos want to put clothes on animals, perhaps we should change it to "his/her/its".

#3: lay = to place or put something as in "Lay down your arms."
lie = to recline or rest upon as in "It's lying on my bed."

#4: Yup, "quick" is an adjective and an adverb is required to modify a verb, hence "quickly".

What you missed was "mix together". Can you mix something apart? It's a redundancy and I'll say some more about that in the future.

Maybe you can "set up" a ladder or a tent but epoxy "sets" or better "hardens". "Set up" has the redolent aroma of yokel about it as do expressions like "fix up", and "straighten up". Eschew the dangling preposition.

#5: "Alot" is not a word. (In fact, when I pasted the text into the forum reply box, "alot" lit up with a red line under it. Apparently the forum has a latent spell checker after all.) "Allot" is a word but it has an entirely different meaning than what is intended here. Even though "A lot" is grammatically correct, the sentence sounds a lot better as:

Many of us have run a lathe for a long time.

Remember, you're always allowed to completely restructure a sentence if your first wording sounds too awkward to rescue with a changed word or two.



My entry to the comma-splice hall of shame...

"I seem to have a problem with uploadind images in photobucket,I log in and try to upload then nothing happens,could it be a setting on vista somewhere." (No, it's not from this forum!)
Regards, Marv

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GlennW
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Re: Something to worry about

Post by GlennW » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:41 pm

I'm still here as well.

I still don't like English tests. :)
Glenn

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Chris Smith
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Re: Something to worry about

Post by Chris Smith » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:09 pm

I have never used "who" and "whom" properly. Would you please discuss how and when to use them.
Chris

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Re: Something to worry about

Post by 6491 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:21 pm

Well, it's nice to see that there's at least one person besides Harold and me who is still following this thread.
Yer mate, I'm still hangin in there. :)
Have a good one....John.
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stevec
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Re: Something to worry about

Post by stevec » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:53 pm

Marv, I love english tests, if only to better my use of the language. Could you comment on "Well, it's nice to see that there's at least one person besides Harold and me who is still following this thread. .
I, foolishly, would have thought that " Harold and I who are"would have been correct.

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Re: Something to worry about

Post by JackF » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:47 am

Harold, and especially Marv,

You two have created a monster, but I (we) are loving it. I wish this was as much fun when I was in school.

Jack.

P.S. Marv, you might my check my post in Hammermill's thread on ship board engines in the General section.
Last edited by JackF on Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Something to worry about

Post by Harold_V » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:58 am

mklotz wrote:Well, it's nice to see that there's at least one person besides Harold and me who is still following this thread. The sad part is that the folks participating here are the ones who need it least; the ones who could really benefit from it will never read it.
I'm totally shocked. Had I tried to correct the errors you included, I would have missed the majority. I also realize that it's going to be a tall order for me to learn the things I should have learned as a kid. It's not that I'm not willing, but, just as it's unreasonable for a novice who has little training to expect to walk in the shoes of a journeyman machinist, so, too, is it unreasonable for me to assume that with just a few corrections I'll be up and running as I would wish. Still, I am determined.

Keep 'em coming, Marv, at least as much as time allows. Don't lose a great deal of sleep over the matter, but please know that there are amongst our midst people that are grateful for your efforts and are capable of putting their ego aside to learn.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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mklotz
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Re: Something to worry about

Post by mklotz » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:16 am

stevec wrote:Marv, I love english tests, if only to better my use of the language. Could you comment on "Well, it's nice to see that there's at least one person besides Harold and me who is still following this thread. .
I, foolishly, would have thought that " Harold and I who are"would have been correct.
The subject of the sentence is (one) person.

...there's at least one person who is following this...

The phrase "besides Harold and me" is a prepositional phrase that modifies the subject. "Besides" is a preposition and it takes the objective case. Hence "me", the objective form of "I" is used.
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mklotz
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Re: Something to worry about

Post by mklotz » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:31 am

Harold_V wrote:
Keep 'em coming, Marv, at least as much as time allows. Don't lose a great deal of sleep over the matter, but please know that there are amongst our midst people that are grateful for your efforts and are capable of putting their ego aside to learn.

Harold
people WHO are grateful, Harold. Every time you write the word "that" check that you're not referring to a human.

Yes, learning to write well takes dedication and a long time as well as plenty of practice. Still, you've already overcome the biggest hurdle - convincing yourself that your writing matters. The vast majority of poor writers take the "they'll figure out what I mean" approach, throwing the effort of decoding their tripe upon the poor reader.

What I'm doing here is far from a good teaching approach. In the interest of holding the attention of the audience, I've only hit some of the worst offenses and some of my personal pet peeves.

If I did it properly I'd start by discussing parts of speech, conjugation of verbs, etc. - all the stuff that probably put you to sleep in high school. That's way beyond my patience level. Hopefully those of you who really do want to improve your writing will go on to purchase a good book on the subject and do a bit of home study.
Regards, Marv

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stevec
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Re: Something to worry about

Post by stevec » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:50 am

OK Marv, now that you've taken the fun out of it by suggesting work (turn head and spit)I am no longer interested.
Regards,
Steve

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mklotz
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Re: Something to worry about

Post by mklotz » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:55 am

Chris Smith wrote:I have never used "who" and "whom" properly. Would you please discuss how and when to use them.
Chris
"Whom" is the objective form of "who". Use "who" when it's the subject or predicate nominative.

Who is it?

It was who?!

Use "whom" when it's the indirect object,

You gave whom a cookie?

or the direct object,

You fired whom?

or the object of a preposition,

To whom shall we appeal?

By now you folks must be coming to the realization that there are few simple rules for grammar of the form:

After this word always use that word.

There are grammar rules but many, if not most, depend on the writer analyzing the structure of the sentence in order to determine which rule holds sway. This means that the writer must invest the time to learn the nomenclature and relationships between elements of the sentence. Back when schools actually taught, they did this by making you diagram sentences. It was tedious but necessary in much the same way that all doctors start their education by dissecting cadavers to learn anatomy.
Regards, Marv

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