Toolpost sizing

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TechTony
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Toolpost sizing

Post by TechTony » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:11 pm

I'm presently in the process of buying tooling for my new Bolton Tools BT800. The next item on my tooling list is a new tool post / tool holder system. From what I've read, a CDCO set is what I'm looking for - but I know nothing about sizing for this. I'd really like to buy the right one the first time, so any input is greatly appreciated. Which one should I get?

jcfx
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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by jcfx » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:02 pm

Just went thru this with my V10P, but wound up sticking with the one that came with it.

The usual way to size a QCTP is to measure the height from the top of your
compound to the center of the chuck, not sure what a CDCO set is, but looking at pictures of a BT800 it
looks like the OEM 4 tool holder has a tall spacer on the compound to bring the tool holder to center.
You may have to machine down that spacer for whichever QCTP you decide on.

Which one to get is what you're willing to spend, you can buy an Aloris or Dorian brand which are expensive, or
the import clones which are a lot less. Then there's piston or wedge style locking mechanisms, my Tripan is
piston style as well as my Phase 2 and they both work well but the QCTP I'm returning is a wedge style, since it didn't
give me enough wiggle room, so I can't say which is better.

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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by spro » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:38 am

heart before the course

Torch
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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by Torch » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:27 am

You will likely want either an "A" / "100" series or a "B" / "200" series Quick Change Tool Post.

The "A", "B", etc. type designation is Aloris sizing. Yuasa, Phase II, etc. use 100, 200, etc.

AXA = piston type = size 100 (2 1/2" wide, 14mm dia t-nut) = 1/2" tool bit, 3/4" boring bar = model 250-100 .

AX = wedge type version in size 100 = model 250-111

BXA = piston type = size 200 (3" wide, 16mm t-nut) = 5/8" tool bit, 1" boring bar = model 250-200

BX = wedge version of size 200 = 250-222

I bought a Chinese version off eBay when I first got my machine. Here are the size details:
page 1
page 2

Wedge are generally more "repeatable" -- ie: it is more likely that the tool tip will return to the exact same position each time the holder is installed. Piston type are generally cheaper.

I documented my original install here.

I later changed that a bit, replacing the original square base under the post itself with a plate under the entire compound to centre the toolpost on the table. I thought I had some better pictures, but this is the only one I can find at the moment. Basically the plate has two keys on the bottom, to locate it on the table slots and a single groove on the top to accept the compound:

Image

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SteveM
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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by SteveM » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:15 am

Stay away from CDCO and any non-branded generic tool posts.

If you can't budget an Aloris or Dorian (and most of us can't) look for a Phase II. You can sometimes find them on sale, and often on ebay.

A wedge is preferred, but if I had a choice between a generic wedge and a Phase II piston, I would go with the Phase II piston (and I can say that with 100% certainty, because that is exactly what I did after I got the generic wedge - I went back to my Phase II piston).

CDCO is good for inexpensive toollholders. It's not quick change if you are constantly changing the bits in the holders.

For ALL the import toolholders (including Phase II), get yourself a box of quality setscrews to replace the ones in the post. Some of them are made of butter - you can actually feel them yielding as you tighten them.

Steve

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BadDog
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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by BadDog » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:10 am

I would support SteveM's comments, and save my typing it... ;) But perhaps with more support for choosing a wedge. I've had both, and would never consider a piston again.
Russ
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by warmstrong1955 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:50 am

BadDog wrote:I would support SteveM's comments, and save my typing it... ;) But perhaps with more support for choosing a wedge. I've had both, and would never consider a piston again.
Yeah....what Steve said, and Russ added.
I had a Grizzly piston, and then a Phase II piston, and neither had the repeatability as my Phase II wedge.
Other problem with the piston, is it tended to come loose with intermittent cuts. I make a lot of bosses & inserts from flame cut steel, and the 'thump-thump-thump' tended to loosen the handle.
I got in the habit of slapping the handle now & then to make sure it was tight when I was cutting.....and....I eventually broke the handle. More than once too.
I've never had a loosening problem with my wedge style posts.

And....just my opinion, I'd think the A size would be a good match for your machine.
Do some measuring & check.

Bill
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.

TechTony
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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by TechTony » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:22 pm

Thanks for weighing in. I'll see if I can find a Phase II wedge. The tool post that came with the machine seems really small but then, so does the compound it rides on. The vice that they incorporated into that compound is total crap - does it have a specific purpose or is it really meant to hold work? The turret toolpost that came on the machine has a very small groove that it rides in on the top of the compound as well ---- is that measurement something I should also take into account when evaluating toolposts for purchase?

Torch
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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by Torch » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:56 pm

Your "BT800" is the same machine as the HQ800 made by Anhui Chizhou Household Machine Tool Co., Ltd. Even the part numbers in the manual reference the HQ series machines. Mine machine is the HQ800V (same chassis as yours, but variable speed). The B or 200 series size tool post was the best size for mine.

I bought a generic "China" brand off eBay, and have had no issues with it. If the truth be told, it may well be made in the same factory as Phase II, Shars, Grizzly or any other knockoff Aloris wedge style tool post. That said, Chinese quality can be highly variable and there are cheap Chinese knock-offs of cheap Chinese knock-offs. And all the Chinese allen-head set screws are junk, no matter what the brand!

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SteveM
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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by SteveM » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:03 pm

Btw, Torch, what is that lever thing on the right side of your compound?

I like the coiled flat-spring leadscrew cover. Did you buy that, or is that something you made?

Steve
Torch wrote:Image

TechTony
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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by TechTony » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:21 pm

Torch wrote:Your "BT800" is the same machine as the HQ800 made by Anhui Chizhou Household Machine Tool Co., Ltd. Even the part numbers in the manual reference the HQ series machines. Mine machine is the HQ800V (same chassis as yours, but variable speed). The B or 200 series size tool post was the best size for mine.

I bought a generic "China" brand off eBay, and have had no issues with it. If the truth be told, it may well be made in the same factory as Phase II, Shars, Grizzly or any other knockoff Aloris wedge style tool post. That said, Chinese quality can be highly variable and there are cheap Chinese knock-offs of cheap Chinese knock-offs. And all the Chinese allen-head set screws are junk, no matter what the brand!
Got a link? For example. Or price range at least? Did it come with the various tool holders? I'd very much prefer to get a full kit rather than piece making it, if I can.

jcfx
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Re: Toolpost sizing

Post by jcfx » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:47 pm

Tony, try the usual suspects, Little Machine shop, Victor machinery, for Phase II, Shars for import.
If you're budget conscious, start off with just the QCTP and some holders, square tool holder, a cutoff tool holder
and buy extra holders as you need them, that's how I started . Phase II and Shars tool holders are inexpensive.

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