3in1 tooling ??

[file weary]

Hello,Ithink? I am not very good with this fancy dam Tureing machine,I cant FEEL it working.I want to buy a 3 in 1. it has to be better than files,hand grinder and 39.95 drillpress. I also have a UNIMAT DB 200 from the 60s. it rattles loudly and accurate to 1/16 on a good day.I have $16oo for a machine,shipping and tooling.looking for used but no luck so far. I was hoping some of you could give a list of the first 5 or 6.... tools,bits,things you needed to be up and running.Probably milling mostly, I have some lathe bits. unless i get lucky ,probably get the cm 5980. If I get the #44142 or anything heavyer i will have to cut some holes in the floor of my shed and put some posts down into the dirt. it has 2x4 floor joists on top of rocks and bricks and blocks and things.came with the house. also does enyone know about theTSK universal tilting rotary table? I make alot of odd shapes and angles. it looked useful.2 hours to type 12 lines, i am getting faster! May all your chips be curled file weary

[ken572]

Hello! file weary,

How Big is your shed?? If it were me I would jack up the shed and
support it on some 6"x6" wood beams and drag it on the beams off
to one side. Form up the floor area and pour a cement floor in, and
after a 3 week cure, drag the shed up on the new cement and put
anchor bolts etc., around the bottom plates and you will have a nice
floor. Build your bench and lathe base and your good to go.
(just my 2 cents)

Ken.

[Torch]

Hello,Ithink? I am not very good with this fancy dam Tureing machine,I cant FEEL it working.I want to buy a 3 in 1. it has to be better than files,hand grinder and 39.95 drillpress. I also have a UNIMAT DB 200 from the 60s. it rattles loudly and accurate to 1/16 on a good day.I have $16oo for a machine,shipping and tooling.looking for used but no luck so far. I was hoping some of you could give a list of the first 5 or 6.... tools,bits,things you needed to be up and running.Probably milling mostly, I have some lathe bits. unless i get lucky ,probably get the cm 5980. If I get the #44142 or anything heavyer i will have to cut some holes in the floor of my shed and put some posts down into the dirt. it has 2x4 floor joists on top of rocks and bricks and blocks and things.came with the house. also does enyone know about theTSK universal tilting rotary table? I make alot of odd shapes and angles. it looked useful.2 hours to type 12 lines, i am getting faster! May all your chips be curled file weary

I would consider doing something with that shed floor before anything else. These machines tend to be top-heavy, a 3-in-1 moreso than the lathe you are used to. If you start spinning something that is slightly out of balance you could inadvertently hit it's natural frequency and have a fast escalation of vibration -- in the extreme case on a poorly constructed floor, I can see that might mean the machine toppling over on you while running, but at the least I think it would mean difficulty getting a decent finish. If Ken's suggestion doesn't work for you, maybe you could at least strip off the flooring in that area, form up a rectangle and pour a concrete pad? That way you would at least have some mass to bolt to.

In a few minutes, several people are going to jump in here and tell you to get a real milling machine instead of a mill-drill or 3-in-1. It's a debate that rages endlessly on the internet. The truth is that a 3-in-1 is a compromise machine, particularly when it comes to milling. You can do the work, but it takes longer and greater care to produce work of decent accuracy. It is also light years ahead of a file, hand grinder and 39.95 drillpress, takes up a smaller footprint than separate machines and tends to cost a bit less than separate machines. Your budget will still be a challenge, however. An accepted rule-of-thumb is that the tooling will cost as much as the machine, and since a 3-in-1 is really two machines, it could cost even more for a really complete set.

But, at a minimum, here is what I would suggest to get started:
1. You can't make something if you can't measure it. A set of 6" digital calipers can be had for around $20 these days, and 8" ones aren't much more. Calipers are not renowned for their incredible accuracy and rely as much on the skill of the operator as the precision of the tool but they are a general purpose compromise -- you can measure inside and outside diameters and heights in metric and imperial. Just don't believe the displays that show resolutions less than 0.001" -- you'll be lucky to get that close. The second measuring tool I would get is a decent dial indicator and magnetic base for setting things up. Some may argue (with some justification) that a Dial Test Indicator is better for that particular purpose, but I think a standard dial indicator with a 1" throw is more versatile. Finally, since you plan to work with angles, some sort of protractor. I have a 6" digital one that is every bit as accurate as a set of calipers but it is certainly useful in some circumstances and far cheaper than a surface plate with sine bars, step blocks, height gauge and so forth. The last thing I would consider essential is a pair of 1-2-3 blocks. They are cheap and versatile as hell.

2. You have to be able to hold things still when milling. As in absolutely can't move when hit by a sledgehammer. Many (if not most) 3-in-1 machines come with a combination milling vice and lathe compound slide. As a compound, it's not bad. As a vice, it sucks. Cheap clamping kits offer a variety of t-nuts, step blocks, flanged nuts, studs and clamps to secure things to the table. (Again, operator skill is a big part of this equation too!). Depending on the size of the work and the length of the tool holder in the mill spindle, the tool may not reach the part if it's clamped on the table. A riser block (basically a table you clamp on your table) is one way around this. A tilt table is another, with the added advantage of being something you can lock at any angle. Of course, for most projects, a milling vice is the weapon of choice. The de facto standard is the Kurt brand. Very expensive though. Someday I'll probably buy one. I would look at some cheaper brand names like Groz or Soba -- maybe not quite as nice as a Kurt but surprisingly well made at a fraction of the cost. The other thing you can do is ask your Turing machine nicely to google how to make your own milling vice. You can probably turn out something at least as functional as a cheap Chinese knock-off. The one other thing I would consider almost essential is a set of 1/8" parallels. Very, very useful for so many tasks.

3. End mills. A couple of different sizes of 2-flute end mills. 4-flute versions have their use, but 2 flutes can cut slots without killing you or destroying your work and can do everything a 4-flute can do (maybe not quite as nice a finish though). You can even use them in place of a fly-cutter to surface things, although a set of 3 Chinese fly-cutters is pretty cheap (almost as cheap as the set screws supplied with the fly cutters). Bear in mind that end-mills are like drill bits -- they are a consumable item, and fly-cutters use small lathe bits -- easily sharpened by the home handyman on a bench grinder. Not so with end-mills, which can be sharpened but need a jig and some skill. Of course, that brings us to: bench grinder. A 6" minimum, 8" preferably. Look in the resource library on this board for a slew of recommendations regarding wheels, grits, etc. On your budget you will probably have to get by with whatever comes on the grinder for now though. Better than nothing, but get a wheel dresser to go with it -- you will need it for any wheel. And you have to hold the end mills in something. The machine will come with a drill chuck, but that makes a very poor end mill holder! At the very least, get end mill holders in the sizes of shanks of end mills you wind up with. They are available for the most common spindle tapers. Most 3-in-1 machines will come with an MT2 or MT3 quill taper, some with an R8 so don't try to buy these in advance. I suppose it's safe to assume you already have drill bits, right? How about a tap-and-die set?

Cutting oil. Even just a bottle from the Home Despot plumbing aisle -- get something. Tools are expensive and a drop of oil goes a long way.

That is, in my Humble Opinion and limited experience, a bare minimum starter kit to get you going (given that you already have lathe tools). As your skills and experience build, I am sure you will find it is insufficient and you need or want to invest in more tooling. When that time comes, you will find a wealth of experience and opinions here to both guide and confuse you.