New guy and new HF 5980

[Dan]

Howdy all,

I am completely new to this. In the past, I have needed bushings, odds and ends. (I take perfectly good bicycles and attach engines to them) My local machine shops are great but last time I needed a bushing, they took 2 weeks and later told me they stopped working on a $30K part to knock out my $80 bushing. I saw the HF 5980. Was a bit of an impulse buy but expletive loving this thing. If any thing, it is much more then I need.

Only problem so far is I have no idea how to run it, lol. Have been reading up on it a few hours every day and it gets more exciting with every new thing I learn I can do with it.

Bought some stuff for her today.
1230 Center Drills, Set of 5 (Numbers 1-5)
1593 Dial Indicator and Magnetic Base
1705 End Mill Holder, 3/8" 2MT - 3/8-16

Dunno if any one is interested but this is the manual; http://images.harborfreight.com/manuals ... 9/5980.PDF


My first project is a bushing to go over a 5/8 keyed shaft. The CVT (That is a racing go kart clutch that is sort of a automatic transmission) has 3/4 I/D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous ... ansmission

My plan is to drill out 3/4 brass round bar with a 5/8 4 fluke end mill. (slowly) leaving 1 1/4" to extend the shaft. The CVT is wider then the shaft is long. It will also need 3 key ways.

Sorry about the wall of text.

[Harold_V]

My plan is to drill out 3/4 brass round bar with a 5/8 4 fluke end mill. (slowly) leaving 1 1/4" to extend the shaft. The CVT is wider then the shaft is long. It will also need 3 key ways.

It might pay you to explore that idea a little, Dan. For starters, not all four flute end mills are center cutting, so the one you have may not work at all.

Assuming it is center cutting, because end mills are intended to cut on the periphery, unlike drills or chucking reamers, when you introduce the end mill to the material, it's capable of doing some pretty strange things. I would assume your plan is to hold the end mill in the tailstock?

Only under rather unusual circumstances will you find perfect alignment of the tailstock with the headstock. That leads to an oversized hole, larger than the end mill in use, and it also offers the risk of heavy chatter, yielding a ratty hole. Remember, end mills are intended to cut on the periphery, which is not a desirable quality when you're drilling holes.

For a job like this, it's usually advisable to drill the hole, but undersized. You then use a boring tool to open the hole to the desired diameter. You would use a telescoping gauge to measure the progress of the bore, which, in turn, is read by a micrometer. It may sound somewhat involved, but in practice it's quite routine.

Be aware that brass is very aggressive where hogging is concerned. Once you have a hole, if you go back in the hole with a larger drill, it generally self feeds, and does so rapidly. Don't hold anything by hand when drilling brass, to avoid potential injury.

Harold

[Dan]

Thanks Harold!

Was sort of rushing it as these were the tools I had on hand or coming. Just have to wait a bit more then.

Kinda killing me. Is like having a new toy on yer birthday morning as a kid and batteries not included sort of feeling.

Thanks for takin' the time and the heads up.

[Harold_V]

Thanks Harold!

Was sort of rushing it as these were the tools I had on hand or coming. Just have to wait a bit more then.

Kinda killing me. Is like having a new toy on yer birthday morning as a kid and batteries not included sort of feeling.

Thanks for takin' the time and the heads up.

Understood. It is frustrating, but the harsh reality is that the cost of support tooling is likely to be greater than the cost of the machine. It's not obvious to a new guy just what is entailed in outfitting a small shop.

Most of us end up with a functional shop, equipped well enough to perform most functions, but it happens over a long period of time, making purchases as the need arises. Don't get discouraged---time flies when you're having fun!

Harold

[Dan]

Rodger that and fer sure Harold,

This is kinda funny. I had a caliper, (HF one but more then met my needs) Could not for the life of me find it. 2 weeks and the dang thing is just mia. I say forget it and take my coupon for $14.99 to HF and gonna pick up a 42 pc. clamp set for 25% off.

They don't have the clamp set in the store and as I walk back in the door at home all but put my hand on the old caliper! lol, snork. (But I did yell and blame the wife) ((she laughed and slapped me on the butt. "your purty" meaning I am dim)


So still sitting here with my 3 cheap calipers waiting to enjoy my new 3-in-one.

Ya know, for all my complaining, it really did clear up in my wee lil brain what I need to accomplish, sort of how (thanks to your advice) and how to go about it.


Just a "batteries not included" sort of day. But all good and froth with "Could be's" and soon 2 comes

[Torch]

I ordered my machine a year ago January. I spent the next few months reading, planning and acquiring the tooling bits I figured I would most need for the sorts of projects I envisioned. Delivery was delayed repeatedly, so while I had a stocking full of batteries, I didn't have anything to put them in -- same net effect on the frustration levels. However, the enforced wait had its benefits as it inspired me to read more and that was time well spent.

I've had the machine now for just about a year. Despite all the reading, I still produced many opportunities for further learning . Honesty compels me to admit I still have opportunities to refine the original plan into something that will still work. However, all that said, it is becoming far more common that I need a part, take some measurements, wander to the machine and produce what I need. The learning curve is steep, but the rewards are commensurate.

[Harold_V]

The learning curve is steep, but the rewards are commensurate.

I've made no secret of the hell I went through when I was hired as a machinist trainee. I had an attitude about myself that I could do anything. And I could. I just couldn't do it right.
Needless to say, we all progress at different rates, and it's true that some never really make the grade, but in my case, it was a full ten months before things turned around for me and I started making things per print. That was working 40 hours weekly. Don't get discouraged.

Harold

[Torch]

I think once the basic skills (feeds, speeds, hitting the dimensions, etc.) are acquired, the biggest challenge is order of operations -- not just for efficiency, but even things like making sure there is still something to grip in the chuck/vice. (I am getting pretty good at turning mandrels )

I have a white board on the wall next to the machine. I can do a quick sketch, scribble some interim measurements, etc. etc. on this while working. Probably not the first thing one thinks of when listing required tools, but very useful nonetheless. And cheaper than many of the other tools...

[Dan]

" I had an attitude about myself that I could do anything. And I could. I just couldn't do it right. "

LOL Harold. Well said. I miss my well spent youth. Was a blast. All that confidence and lack of fear of failure. I do think it is way more fun to be older now though. Well, a whole lot easier any way.

I think once the basic skills (feeds, speeds, hitting the dimensions, etc.) are acquired, the biggest challenge is order of operations -- not just for efficiency, but even things like making sure there is still something to grip in the chuck/vice. (I am getting pretty good at turning mandrels )

I have a white board on the wall next to the machine. I can do a quick sketch, scribble some interim measurements, etc. etc. on this while working. Probably not the first thing one thinks of when listing required tools, but very useful nonetheless. And cheaper than many of the other tools...

Uber cool Torch. I read your post and put one up. I have yet to even plug her in but have 3 scraps of paper on the bench with notes and measurements. Ya never can find em when ya need them!

Just got an email from UPS. Those parts will soon be here! WoHooo!

I really, really wanna start making some scrap.

[Dan]

I have yet to plug her in. But is all paid off and just now getting back to researching, planning and buying tools. You were absolutely right Torch. Paid to wait.

This is funny, I was looking for the drill chuck and realized it came in a box that is the same as used for Chinese take out. Snork, I am not kidding. See pic.

I have looked and looked but can not figure out for sure what the purpose is for parts in the other picture.

This week-end, I am going to (as advised here, thanks again!) tear her down and lube every thing. A friend told me to use "Pam" cooking spray. Sounds insane enough to work but if ya have any thoughts or suggestions, they are greatly appreciated. Also any thoughts a fluid oil for the internals? Has ball check valves that open with an old style oil can.

This is really cool! Really enjoying these vids. http://www.home-machine-shop.com/links-7-books.htm I really am starting from scratch and even the simple stuff is/are brand new concepts for the most part, for me. But man! this is cool. Gotta start making some scrap. Connecting the concepts to practice.

[Harold_V]

I have looked and looked but can not figure out for sure what the purpose is for parts in the other picture.

Hard to say what they have in mind for the two pins, but the tapered item is a "drift", used to remove a mounted chuck from a spindle. Not all machines require a drift. Extend the tailstock on your lathe and look for a slot on the barrel (goes through, side to side, and accepts the tapered drift to knock out the drill chuck shank). It is common for lathes to have a self ejecting feature, which bumps the taper out when the barrel (quill) of the tailstock is retracted fully.

Openings for drifts are quite common on drill presses.

A friend told me to use "Pam" cooking spray. Sounds insane enough to work but if ya have any thoughts or suggestions, they are greatly appreciated. Also any thoughts a fluid oil for the internals? Has ball check valves that open with an old style oil can.

I'd be inclined to lose that idea. You don't want to use ANY oil that can turn rancid, and vegetable oil can. It won't do any harm initially, but as it turns rancid it will stink like hell, and become sticky. If all else fails, use a non-detergent engine oil, maybe 20 wt. You'd be far better served to buy proper machine oils, however. For ways, you'd want Vactra 2. Here's a link that can help you make a wise choice.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=machine+lu ... x=103&y=10
You may be able to buy the needed oils from a local oil distributor. If not, you can order the needed oils from machine tool supply dealers, online. Enco, for example. They sell oils in small volume containers.

Harold

[Torch]

I'm not sure what the pins are for either. Temporary handles used to adjust belt or spring tension somewhere perhaps?

Pam is great for cooking, but like most vegetable oils, it gets gooey as it dries out. Most oil-based paints are vegetable-oil based -- have you ever tried to open a window that was painted shut? Not what you want in a machine tool.

After soliciting advice here, I ended up buying a gallon of "way oil". Specifically designed for lubricating lathe ways, it combines good adhesion with excellent film strength and minimal stiction (ie: the force required to get the bed moving from a stop -- important feature when you need to nudge the bed 0.001"). I fill a little 1-pint oil can (with a thumb pump) and use it for the entire machine, including those ball oilers for screws and gibs. I painted the can bright red to differentiate it from the other one that contains my cutting oil. It's easy to get the two confused otherwise -- Don't Ask Me How I Know This (tm). I've been at this a little over a year now, and still have maybe 1/4 of the jug left.

For cutting oil, I went with dark sulphur-based oil. It's black. It's stinky. It's messy. It stains aluminium. It smokes like the devil when the chips are blue. It's probably not particularly environmentally friendly. And it's hard to find. But boy does it work! And it doesn't freeze in the winter when the shop is -40°. I've used maybe 1/4-1/3 of a 20L (5 gal) pail thus far (I drain my chips in a 5 gallon bucket lined with a burlap bag & recycle it). I like to drizzle a thin stream over the lathe bit as it's cutting, and apply a thin coat to the metal ahead of the bit when milling.

There's lots of other options for cutting fluid, including the stuff in the plumbing department at Home Despot and various water-based concentrates. Many folks here just cut dry. Search the general discussion forum for the pros and cons of more options than you care to imagine!