What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

This forum is dedicated to those hobbyists with the 3-in-1 metalworking machines. Mill-Drill-Lathes. Tips, techniques, modification and use of these machines is topical.

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CyberGolem
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What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by CyberGolem »

Hi,
I'm ultra new to the world of machining (long time fan though) and was hoping to hear what your opinion about some 3-in-1 machines I'm considering to buy are.

I'm mostly interested in Mill/Drill/Lathes because I only have a 1 car garage with a car project taking up most of it already... along with a ton of other equipment (e.g. welder, compressor, cabinets, etc.).

I've found some entry level machines for starters; specifically the Grizzly [G9729] and Smithy [Midas 1220 LTD]. Both are at the top of my price range. Is there any preference over one from the other? Any other machine manufacturers you prefer... why?

Anyway, it's nice to be here and I hope to hear what you think.

—Chaz
kermit
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by kermit »

I have the Smithy 1220 LTD. You can read my thought's on this machine by running a search under my user name. I think this is the best 3 in 1 machine for the size and the $'s available + Smithy support and accessory's are all together on there web site. If you need more information or photos of an actual working 1220 LTD and accessories, please feel free to contact me at kgowe@comcast.net
PeteM
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by PeteM »

Best? The Golmatic (Google it) would surely be near the top of the list. But the price will be around $20,000 with one fully equipped for milling, drilling, turning, indexing . . .

Affordable best? Maybe a used Austrian-made Emco Maximat in good condition.
kermit
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by kermit »

Like I said above..........the best value for the $'s spent............
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LX Kid
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by LX Kid »

I have an older ShopTask, that I bought used, and it give me all the accuracy I need for my home hobby work. I really like it and it compliments my Grizzly G0619 SX3.
RetiredLE
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by RetiredLE »

Greetings from another newby to the forum.

I found this thread and thought I would join in cuz I have the same questions.

The boss (spouse) has given the go ahead for the purchase of a metal lathe (waits for the cheering and applause to die down) and I have been looking at the Grizzly units.

I have read and been told by those more knowledgeable than I that you should stay away form the lathe/mill combos as they do neither operation very well. The question begs to be asked. Why not? Does the weight of the mill throw off the ways slightly or are there other technical issues that need to be explored?

Any ideas / thoughts / suggestions / observations / personal experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks for reading and have a great autumn evening.

Mike

PS: By the way, the Grizzly [G9729] is no longer carried by them.
Torch
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by Torch »

There's 3-in-1s and then there's 3-in-1s. Some are pretty small and flimsy, but I think the 9729 style is one of the better ones around. I don't think even the critics have a problem with the lathe portion, per se. It's comparable to any Chinese lathe of similar size. There are two main criticisms, the first being the need of swapping set-ups when switching from milling to drilling.

To a degree, this is warranted. If I have something on the lathe, I can't readily set up something else for milling or drilling. I find this primarily happens when I have a project I am pecking away at in my spare time, but need to use the machine for something more urgent in the meantime. I can sometimes go the other way -- use the lathe for a quick job without disturbing the mill set up too much by mounting the tool post further to the end of the table than usual. It depends on how much of the table is already in use for the milling project.

Interruptions aside, changing from one job to another generally involves a new set-up on any machine so that particular characteristic is not that much of an impediment otherwise. I can often plan the job so all lathe work is done at one time and all mill work done at a separate time. I'll even do multiple projects simultaneously that way. For example, when I made some gears, I turned the blanks for the gears and the gear cutter etc. all at the same time, then set up to mill -- first the cutter, then the gears using the cutter.

The other complaint is that the mill/drill moves when the head is raised or lowered due to the round column. This is common to any round-column mill-drill, not just 3-in-1 machines. There are ways around this, it just takes some time and care to re-index and some forethought to ensure you have something to index to before and after raising/lowering the column. Many 3-in-1 designs have a fair bit of space between the table and the spindle, even when the column is fully lowered. There is a temptation to rely on the quill as there is no movable knee, but accuracy suffers at full quill extension. It is better to use a riser block to lift the work or a different tool holder to lower the tool rather than fully extend the quill when milling. BTW: When considering the practical limitations of the other two dimensions, remember that while the cross-slide travel may be, say, 8-1/2", you have to leave some room for the diameter of the tool at either end.

Size-wise, the 3-in-1 format has the obvious advantage of a smaller footprint than two separate machines of the same individual capability. This was a huge consideration in my case, where I could only spare a small corner of the garage. Separate machines would have meant much smaller machines, so in my particular case, the "small-envelope" of the 3-in-1 is actually larger than I could achieve with separate machines.

Cost-wise, the 3-in-1 can have an advantage too. The lathe uses the milling table to support the tool post, there's only one bed to build, a single 3-axis DRO does double duty (with a quick setting change from Radius to Diameter mode on the cross slide, of course) and the lathe motor can be a power-feed for milling (on machines with separate motors anyway). A side-effect of mounting the lathe tool post on a milling table is that there's room to have two tool posts set up at the same time -- handy for making a series of ball-ends or whatever. (And if you are doing small stuff, you can have a milling vice at one end of the table and a tool post on the other -- so much for the "have to change set-ups" criticism :lol: )

So if space and money are no object, time is critical and/or you will regularly mill across more than 6-8" in each direction or deeper than 4", then the 3-in-1 format is probably not for you. But I have turned out some quite usable pieces over the last 1-1/2 years so if the versatile format "fits" you and your needs, don't be afraid just because some others decided a 3-in-1 didn't fit them.
RetiredLE
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by RetiredLE »

Thanks for the detailed response. Is there any difference between the units where the mill is mounted midway down the ways versus those where it is mounted above the main motor housing - other than mountain location of course.

Also, would it be beneficial to get a unit where a part could be turned and milled at the same time or are the lower cost units capable of doing that?
Torch
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by Torch »

RetiredLE wrote:Is there any difference between the units where the mill is mounted midway down the ways versus those where it is mounted above the main motor housing - other than mountain location of course.
I've never had the opportunity to examine one of those mid-ship mounted mills close up. There may be an advantage in rigidity, as the overhanging arm doesn't have to clear the lathe spindle and could possibly be shorter. Of course, that would only apply if the construction is equally heavy, which is probably not the case with separate add-on milling accessories for standard lathes. I don't know how the available table size and travel would compare.
Also, would it be beneficial to get a unit where a part could be turned and milled at the same time or are the lower cost units capable of doing that?
I am not aware of any machine with that capability (outside of CNC). I suspect it would be difficult or dangerous to apply a spinning milling cutter to a spinning workpiece by hand! That said, I have used the lathe chuck & tailstock to hold a piece while drilling it -- a fast and easy way to locate a hole on-centre of a round shaft.

That said, having separate lathe and mill motors is useful for milling operations. The better machines have thread-cutting capability, meaning they have a feed screw geared to the lathe spindle. That feed screw is intended to move the tool post (either left-right or in-out). Since carriage does double duty as both the mount for the toolpost and as the milling table, the lathe motor can therefore be used as a power feed when milling. Two caveats: first, even if you remove the chuck, there is still a spinning lathe spindle to be aware of. Second, some machines (like mine) have a selector switch instead of separate lathe & mill power switches. Those have to be re-wired to allow running both motors simultaneously.
RetiredLE
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by RetiredLE »

Some good points - which once again proves that a person can learn something new every day. ;p)

I did see a you tube video where a guy was using a lathe/mill combo in conjunction to machine some sort of flange. I could see where utmost care would be required though during the operation.

Thanks again for the detailed response.

Mike
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juiceclone
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by juiceclone »

Hi New member just looking at how jobs can be done .
I looked for a 3in1 for quite a while as I had a HF one but no power feed, so no threading. In my research I saw that a lot of the ones available in the US "looked" alike. After some time, I was able to trace down the manufacturer in Shanghai who seems to be the source. "Sumore tools" What is important is that they make better versions of the machines offered by, for example, BusyBee, Bolton, Grizzley etc. but no one imports them into the US . I even tried to get Grizzley to get one for me to no avail. That said I decided to try to import the one I wanted myself. It took well over a year to get to me because the Mfg does not build in less than 5 pcs at a time. I was able to start a dialog with their online rep (named Kelley) and after MUCH communications was able to get her to commit to their adding 1 pc to the next production run and ship it to me. Six months later she informed me that one would be available and I jumped on it. Importing something on your own is an "interesting" project to say the least! You would have to have it sent to a port of entry for customs inspection and duty. I live near Miami, Fl. so that was ok, but probably NY. LA. Seattle and others would work and pick it up yourself or pay to have it shipped.. The cost of my "SP2304" from Sumore was $1600 delivered to Miami ! However the BS involving forms etc. "had" to be done by a "customs broker" They charged me another $600 to do the job, which included 20 min of paperwork and pay the import duty!! You might have more honest people available than I did. US customs would not tell me how much the duty paid was. I was able to discover from "other sources" that it was all of $27. !!! :twisted:
The machine itself has done everything I have asked of it. I was able use it to machine more change gears for the lathe and a micro feed for the mill. This is exactly the kind of thing I got it for, those times when you need something, it's not available (economically) and you know you could make it if you just had the tool for that. :mrgreen: If anyone needs to know more about the process, look it up and don't believe half of what you see ..According to US GOV it's easy. . :roll: Or email me juiceclone at comcast dot net and I'll help ....if I can. I'll try and include a pix below and you can see the differences in machine specs. This one has power feed apron AND cross, electronic variable speed on the lathe and mill separately , 9 speed quick change gearbox in addition to the changeable back gears, reversible motor and separate reversible feed, and digital readout on lathe speed and mill quill depth. :shock: As with any Chinese product you have to examine closely when it arrives, quality control. I had to replace 3 bolts that were crap, but hardware stores carry metric stuff now. It seems to be well made. I have since added very inexpensive digital readouts on the apron and cross feed ... Can't seem to get metric in my head, :oops: , and OC tool post..THAT is definitely worth the money.
Ok going to try to add a pix now :mrgreen:
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sp2304.jpg
Torch
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Re: What is the best of the 3-in-1's?

Post by Torch »

Sounds very familiar. I imported a machine to Canada from China. In the end, I hooked up with a small firm that imported other products made by the same company and (for a price) he brought my machine in his container and dealt with the brokerage for me.
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