replacement motor for a HF44142

This forum is dedicated to those hobbyists with the 3-in-1 metalworking machines. Mill-Drill-Lathes. Tips, techniques, modification and use of these machines is topical.

Moderator: Harold_V

Jefe
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:37 pm

replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by Jefe » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:27 pm

Hello,

I'm new to this form and a new user of a HF44142 3 in 1.
I use it in my home shop to make some marine related items.

Has anyone replaced the milling motor on this unit. If so, what did you replace it with and where did you get it.

I would like to install a more powerfull motor if it can be done. The lathe motor seems to be ok for what I do but the mill motor needs more power. I think I will burn it out on some of my projscts milling stainless steel. I would like to have a spare at hand.

Thanks in advance for your replys,

Jefe

Torch
Posts: 1554
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by Torch » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:19 am

The HF44142 is one of a family, all based on the same "chassis", by Anhui Chizhou Household Machine Tool Co., Ltd. in China. (That one seems to be an iteration of their 800mm bed casting, there's also shorter 500mm and 400mm versions) Different retailers decide on different options, such as R8 vs MT3 mill spindle, quick-change gear-box and, of course, motor specifications. I think all North American vendors choose 120vac 3/4 hp motors, but the factory will supply 220vac or 90vdc and 180vdc, 1.5hp variable speed motors as well.

I custom ordered mine from the factory, complete with the 180vdc 1.5hp option on both the lathe and the mill. When I ordered it, I had no personal experience, but was going by the number of people over on the 3-in-1 Yahoo groups forum that were converting theirs, using 1hp treadmill motors and controllers.

With ~18 months experience under my belt, I believe this is the ideal choice for the lathe operations. However, the additional power may be overkill for milling operations. Yes, it can take bigger bites, etc. However, the rigidity of the milling head is not equal to the motor. In particular, the round column can rotate out of position with disastrous results if the clamping pressure is overcome by the cutting forces. I think the 3/4hp motor would be more likely to stall before disaster strikes.

I do a lot of work in SS (I have a few boats myself :wink: ) and find I can get very good results provided I take care to ensure a rigid set-up and appropriate cuts. For example, cutting a 1/2" slot in 316 with an end-mill, I would limit each roughing pass to ~0.030" - 0.040", undersizing the slot by .005" on each side before taking the final .005" or .010" of depth at full width. I also try to minimize the quill extension by using a tilt-table or riser block to support short pieces. This adds considerably to the surface finish quality.

I really like the variable speed -- I can dial in the exact speed I want with minimum fuss. I replaced the original SCR controller with PWM controllers, and the motors run as smooth as butter (18,000hz vs 60hz), cooler and with better low-end torque (but see milling caution above!)

That's my 2¢ anyway.

stevec
Posts: 1949
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:40 pm
Location: N.S. Canada

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by stevec » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:24 am

Torch, where do you get your PWM controllers and what is their model/part no.?

Torch
Posts: 1554
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by Torch » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:42 pm

I bought a pair of KBWT-210 controllers online. The best price at the time was through www.walkeremd.com

Note that the KBWT-210 is rated for up to 10 amps continuous output (at 220vac supply) with a limit of 17 amps. The maximum current output and DC voltage output must be set to avoid over-driving the motor and damaging it. This is just about the heaviest duty controller I could find. PWM controllers for big DC motors just aren't that common, I guess. They make a smaller model (KBWT-26 for 220v supply or KBWT-16 for 110v supply) that is rated 6amps continuous, 10 amps max, but my motors are rated 6.7 amps.

Setting the voltage is easy -- simply set the speed control to max, measure the motor's shaft speed with a tach and adjust the max voltage trim pot from a minimal setting upwards until the shaft speed meets the rated speed. Setting the max current requires a DC ammeter rated as much as the motor. Fortunately, I have an active clamp-on that measures DC current, but most meters will require an in-line connection. Because the overload shut-down function will kill the power if you exceed the setpoint, you can't simply lock the rotor and wind up the current trim pot like with an SCR controller. You have to load down the spinning motor while measuring the current. An assistant would be a big asset here!

Other features include IR compensation (monitors armature current to maintain regulated speed under load), field outputs, adjustable accel and decel, auxilliary stop contacts (I'm eventually going to wire limit switches to those), computer- or potentiometer speed control and selectable inhibit function (prevents accidental start-up on power-up until pot is rotated to 0). There's an overload shut-down if current exceeds the max setpoint and finally the output is fused.

These things are big. Too big to fit in place of the original controller. About 7" square and 3" tall, IIRC. Each. Most of that is heat-sink. (The smaller versions have smaller heat-sinks, so they are not as wide) I built a new enclosure for them. The re-wiring was planned anyway so I can now use the lathe motor as a power-feed when milling. :D

Control is fairly precise. I can set the lathe to turn at 1 rpm (with the belt in low range). My mill spindle maxes out at >5,000 rpm (with the belt in high range). I have the accel set to ramp up the speed somewhat gradually, so there is a delay when adjusting the speed. I have the decel set to 0 so it shuts down as quickly as possible.

I think I mentioned the motors run cooler, smoother and quieter. By quiet, I mean you can converse in a normal voice on the telephone while the lathe is spinning at full speed. Scary quiet. They also have vastly improved low-speed torque -- now I can actually use that huge swing!

The downside is they aren't cheap. And as I said in the earlier post, I think the torque the 1.5hp motor can develop is probably more than the mill can really handle. I now have the mill motor current limit trimmed down to 6 amps to limit the torque.

stevec
Posts: 1949
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:40 pm
Location: N.S. Canada

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by stevec » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:16 pm

Thanks Torch.
No Canadian source eh? It just seems to me by the time you pay international postage, brokerage fees etc. prices become unrealistic.

Torch
Posts: 1554
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by Torch » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:22 pm

I had it shipped to my buddy in the US. Considerably cheaper.

stevec
Posts: 1949
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:40 pm
Location: N.S. Canada

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by stevec » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:19 pm

Riigghht! We've been through this before. The thrill of alzheimer's is the new things every day. The bummer is when you realize it's familiar. :roll:

Torch
Posts: 1554
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by Torch » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:38 pm

Look on the bright side: Now you can hide your own Easter eggs. :P

Torch
Posts: 1554
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by Torch » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:10 pm

Ok, I've never done this before, but if this works, you should be able to hear how quiet the machine is now.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/rU5iKf1Zc2Q[/youtube]

edit: Nope, that didn't work. Let's try this:

Code: Select all

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rU5iKf1Zc2Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Nope. That doesn't work either. Anyone know how to do this :?:

Oh well, just click on this link then.

Harold_V
Posts: 18201
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by Harold_V » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:28 pm

Torch wrote:Ok, I've never done this before, but if this works, you should be able to hear how quiet the machine is now.


Only the last portion of the link is included. It looks like this:

Code: Select all

[youtube]rU5iKf1Zc2Q[/youtube]
Readers should note that one does NOT use the code button when posting an imbedded link. It has been used here so the line can be displayed in full.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Torch
Posts: 1554
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by Torch » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:51 pm

Ok, I get it now. Thanks Harold!

Welcome! :wink:

H

Jefe
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:37 pm

Re: replacement motor for a HF44142

Post by Jefe » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:18 pm

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replys. I will look into the new motor and controler.


Jeff

Post Reply