HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

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Torch
Posts: 1684
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by Torch »

That thing will be spinning at up to 5,000 rpm (depending on your motor and pulley combo) under a firm preload. I don't think there is any question about the bottom bearing. Pull it, clean it, lube it or regret it. BTW, there are a total of 3 bearing sets in there. You knew that, right? The ball bearing set for the pulley and upper and lower bearings on the spindle itself. On my machine, both sets of spindle bearings are tapered roller bearings, so both were released together. Are yours ball bearing sets or something?
RetroWoody
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:17 pm
Location: Near Omaha, Nebraska

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by RetroWoody »

The top bearing set came off with the block for the pulley. (The one with the retaining ring) The second one I can see at the top of the shaft. I believe it is a tapered roller bearing, but don't have it out yet to be sure. I still have to bend the spider back and remove the nut. It looks identical to your photo.

The 3rd set is down below in the head at the bottom, oriented in the opposite direction as the top one, right?

I will get them all out and take care of business. I was indulging in a little "Wouldn't it be nice, if..?" fantasy. It probably should have been done before running it no matter when that was based on the type and amount of lubricants used. No corrosion yet, though. Everything looks good.

If I have my way with it, and I get off work early enough, it all comes out tonight. I will know a lot more then.
Torch
Posts: 1684
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by Torch »

Sounds like you have it all well in hand. Glad to hear there was no evidence of corrosion, it must just be the grease has congealed after years of sitting.
RetroWoody
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:17 pm
Location: Near Omaha, Nebraska

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by RetroWoody »

Thanks to your help and pictures, I think I can see daylight on the mill side of the house. The grease is stringy and in dry-ish globs. Some places it is in dry patches. No wonder it would not turn. The Pen oil helped it break up, I think. Cleaning, greasing, and reinstallation is the path forward. I need to find a replacement for the Allen hex bolt that stripped, but I could just replace it with any metric bolt of the right size and TPI if I can't find an exact replacement locally.

I am still worried about the lathe, though. But, one bridge at a time.
Torch
Posts: 1684
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by Torch »

I think the lathe will be easier to disassemble, looking at the parts diagrams. The trickiest part will be the key for the drive gear inside the headstock. I never removed my lathe spindle, but I did disassemble all the other gears when I replaced the plastic ones, and it is a bit tight getting your hands inside that little access panel. Forceps and needlenose pliers were the order of the day! And a little inspection mirror.

It is strange though, because the lathe bearings are splash lubed with gear oil, not greased. Any chance the gear range shifter is just out of position and trying to engage two gears at once?
RetroWoody
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:17 pm
Location: Near Omaha, Nebraska

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by RetroWoody »

I tried it and it won't shift to position 3. It will go from 1 to 2, but sticks. The threading lever doesn't always switch either. Only after jiggling a little.
Torch
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by Torch »

Straight-cut gears, so 3 is probably just not quite aligned. You could likely rotate the output shaft at the change-gear end and it would shift.

If it's going from 1-2, then I guess it's not stuck.
RetroWoody
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:17 pm
Location: Near Omaha, Nebraska

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by RetroWoody »

If the gears are a little misaligned, then I worry about their lifecycle. i should probably plan on getting or making replacements.

I didn't get home early enough to take more than a look at the quill. I took off the lower cap and looked at the bearing on the bottom. Tough, stringy, ropes of "grease" were hanging down, so the pen oil was doing it's job. It was a little bit of a mess, but the rolling elements looked pretty good from what I can see with no corrosion. :D

I plan to pop it out tonight, clean, regrease, and reassemble it. If it all goes smoothly, then I will start on the lathe side tomorrow.

One question, I have heard that there are instances of casting sand, nuts, bolts, and pieces of metal in these machines. Have you seen any of that sort of stuff? I don't know whether to hope for that (easy fix) or be worried that it will be there (sloppy mfg).
Torch
Posts: 1684
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by Torch »

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest the gears were incorrectly positioned, just that the teeth needed to rotate to allow engagement. These are straight-cut spur gears, and slide sideways on a shaft to engage the next gear. If two adjacent gears happen to have the teeth in the same position at the same time, well, two objects just can't coexist in the same physical space at the same time. Normally the lathe is rotating (no load) when you shift gears. Since the lathe doesn't want to cooperate, I wonder if it would slide into gear by rotating the other shaft -- ie: the one that comes out of the headstock and drives the change gear set.

I have heard similar horror stories about the casting sand, etc. in Chinese machinery. Mine was pretty clean. The QC issues on mine are more along the line of hand-drilled locating or bolt holes that are not quite centred on symetrical objects. The block on top of the mill where the pulley bearing sits is one example -- it only goes on one way or the bolt holes don't quite line up, even though it's square. It's like they clamped everything in position and hand drilled & tapped the holes. The lead screw is another example: it's attached to the gear box with a roll pin. Perfect fit, runs true, but if you rotate the lead screw 180° in the output shaft socket, the roll pin won't go all the way through. This is very much a hand-built machine!
RetroWoody
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:17 pm
Location: Near Omaha, Nebraska

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by RetroWoody »

Torch wrote:... but if you rotate the lead screw 180° in the output shaft socket, the roll pin won't go all the way through. This is very much a hand-built machine!
Cool! 8) A custom unit! ...well, sort of. :)

An evening of mixed results. After removing the spider and nut, I tapped out the shaft with the bearings. The only problem is, when I was tapping it out, the lower bearing rolling element cage caught on the wood blocking the quill and bent it, destroying the bearing. :roll:

Both bearings are full of tough, rubbery grease. Some is ok, but it looks like some gathered dust and dried, gomming up the works. I will be using your specs on the previous page to go and locate a bearingtomorrow, so no more work tonight. I might try to leave the old races in place if they are an exact match, given that they are in like-new shape having never been run. That would save me removing the old and pressing in the new races.

Once I locate new bearings, it should go back together quickly. I am ready to open up the gear box for the lathe.
Torch
Posts: 1684
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by Torch »

If you don't have a local bearing supply house, they are readily available on-line. Just looking at the first site brought up by Google, here is the upper:

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit12450

and the lower:

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit12451

But that is not the only source or brand, of course. Hey, just checked and they're even available on eBay, in quality Timken, FAG or SKF or mystery Chinese.

I would double check the dimensions first though -- just in case the specifications changed over the intervening years.
RetroWoody
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:17 pm
Location: Near Omaha, Nebraska

Re: HF 44142 Newb Question - Need help

Post by RetroWoody »

Thanks, Torch! I appreciate the links! I didn't even think of Ebay.

I have the day off, so I am going to one of the bearing supply houses here in town this morning and see if they have them. I also have to pick up a race installer kit, since I don't seem to have mine after the move. :x

I realized last night that I should have been taking pictures to help the next guy who has to do this. Maybe I will start today with the install. Keep your fingers crossed.
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