Splined Shaft for a Shopmaster or It's equivelent?

[toddalin]

I just got a ShopMaster Eldorado Tri-Power. Unforetunatly, due to poor quality control at the factory (i.e., mis-located scale), I've broken a short splined shaft. The shaft is ~1.25" long and the metric equiivelent of 0.4" ID and 0.6" OD for the inner shaft and 0.7" OD at the four splines. The originals are sintered, but I guess aluminum would work. Or maybe someone recognizes the piece and has a source for it, or a similar shaft that could be modified to work.

ShopMaster tells me that they no longer stock this part, the manufacture has closed, and they have no plans to produce it, so there may even be some market here as this would appear to be a sacrificial piece.

I've had nothing but problems with this machine from the start. I was just getting them sorted out, then this.
Can anyone help?

Thanks

[Torch]

Is this for the power drive? Can the machine be used manually without it? If so, you could make your own, but you would need an indexer or rotary table for cutting the splines.

Turn a piece on the lathe to the OD. Make it extra long. Mount it in a chuck on the rotary table. Offset the table 1/2 the width of the splines + 1/2 the width of the endmill. I'd use a small diameter endmill. Cut one side of the spline, running the shaft lengthwise. Rotate the rotab 90° and repeat x 3. Offset the other way and do the other side of the splines. Now, rotate the rotab 45° and centre the piece. Carve away between the lines, rotating the rotab under the endmill. It won't be as perfect as cutting a round shaft on a lathe, but it should do the job.

Someone else may be along shortly with an even better way to do it. I made my own headstock gears, replacing the nylon ones with nice new aluminium ones in a similar fashion, hand-cranking everything. To form the gear teeth, I first had to make a form tool from O1 tool steel, which I then hardened and sharpened. If you decide to use aluminium, it would be possible to do something similar for the splines, turning the tool on the lathe and then gashing the gear teeth with the mill. That way you could cut the splines in one pass (well, maybe a couple to get the depth, but no fiddling with the rotab between passes). You would also have that tool for next time.

[GlennW]

Perhaps if they no longer supply the part, they could possibly provide the drawing for the part.

[toddalin]

Is this for the power drive? Can the machine be used manually without it? If so, you could make your own, but you would need an indexer or rotary table for cutting the splines.

Yes, it is for the power feed. I still have manual and CNC operation. I could do it that way if I had a rotary table and the experience to do it. (And even mentioned that to my wife. She said, "It can be your first project.")

Also, the lathe has indexing every 10* so I guess the lathe could hold the piece while the mill works on it, so long as the angles work out and again, if I had the experience and the tooling.

Thanks

[toddalin]

Perhaps if they no longer supply the part, they could possibly provide the drawing for the part.

I really wouldn't count on it. JT has been no help at all. If I have the part made, I would send the broken piece for sizing.

[Patio]

I am a beginner, but it seems to me, that part,being so small, could be turned on a lathe with the grooves filed in by hand, afterwards. I do not know what the best material would be, but other, better educated people here, can give you good idea on that.

[Torch]

Also, the lathe has indexing every 10* so I guess the lathe could hold the piece while the mill works on it, so long as the angles work out and again, if I had the experience and the tooling.

You can't offset the lathe or take passes with an endmill when the part is held in the lathe.

This forum doesn't see a lot of traffic. But if you posted a request in the general discussion forum, I bet you could find someone within reasonable travel distance with a rotab and a willingness to teach.

[toddalin]

Also, the lathe has indexing every 10* so I guess the lathe could hold the piece while the mill works on it, so long as the angles work out and again, if I had the experience and the tooling.

You can't offset the lathe or take passes with an endmill when the part is held in the lathe.

This forum doesn't see a lot of traffic. But if you posted a request in the general discussion forum, I bet you could find someone within reasonable travel distance with a rotab and a willingness to teach.

Can you place one end of the "tube" in the lathe for indexing then clamp the other end in a V-block to "take the pressure of the mill" with the mill offset just slightly?

[Torch]

Can you place one end of the "tube" in the lathe for indexing then clamp the other end in a V-block to "take the pressure of the mill" with the mill offset just slightly?

If you were driling a hole and if your machine has a round column without a bridge, then you could adjust things by eye to hit one particular spot. But with the piece clamped in the lathe, and the mill column height adjustment properly tightened, the only movement of a tool in the mill relative to the workpiece is vertical or rotational. Either the piece or the tool has to be able to move in a straight line along the longitudinal axis of the piece in order to cut splines.

You could do it on the lathe with the piece clamped in the chuck if you had a tool post grinder with some sort of vertical adjustment. I think precision would still be a challenge though.

For things like gears, splined or slotted shafts, curved slots or other milling, a rotary table with spin index attachments is invaluable. I bought this 6" model from Grizzly. It comes with the tailstock and is extremely versatile. I have rarely if ever actually used the tailstock but I use the spin index plates regularly. They sell the table alone for about $40 less than the kit, but want $140 for the index plates and $100 for the tail stock if you buy things separately so I think it's a false economy. The only thing it doesn't come with is a chuck. I just mount my 6" 4-jaw lathe chuck to it when necessary. The hole in the centre is MT-2 so I turned a tool to center the chuck on the table whie I bolt it down through 4 holes I drilled in the chuck to mate up with the t-slots. There's also a 4" version about $150 less, but it only has an MT-1 hole and is too small to mount a 6" chuck vertically so you would need a smaller diameter chuck.

I suspect right now you are hesitant to spend any more money, given your comment about having had nothing but problems with the machine. So, first of all, understand that the problems will lessen as the operator gains experience -- I know mine did. Second, while power-feed will help make a nice finish and is essential for CNC work, you can stop cranking a handle a lot faster than you can hit an emergency stop button. And you can feel things like increased resistance at the end of your travel a lot better too. Consider dispensing with the power feed for the first little while while you get some experience with the machine. And consider coupling things with brass shear pins, aluminium keys, etc. so you have an easy to replace failure point when you do start making use of the power feeds.

Third, I see you are in California. I don't know exactly where but there are a lot of members from that state, and most of the members can be very helpful with each other. I'm sure someone would be happy to spend an afternoon with you showing you how to cut splines in your new shaft on their rotary table/spin indexer. But I don't think the guys with separate machines visit this part of the board very often.

[toddalin]

Thanks Torch,

When I mentioned the V-block, my intent was to index the piece in the lathe. Then get the V-block mounted to the table at the same height, so that the piece fits in both simultaneously. Clamp the piece into the block, then release the piece from the lathe. Position the block off-set from the mill and mill the small surface. Then return the V-block/piece assembly to the lathe. Reclamp the piece into the lathe. Unclamp the V-block, and rotate the lathe to the next desired position based on the index and do it all again.

I got the machine after it had been sitting unused in a barn for 4 years. The PO also had a Patriot as well as a machinie shop and fired it up when he got it, and when he sold it to me. There is no wear on any of the parts. (But lots of Chinese surface rust.) I'm still waiting for the base of my lathe tool holder from the PO.

Agreed that experience will lessen the problems and already has to some extent. But a beginner would think that a "high quality" piece like this should have its scales properly aligned. A 10%+ error in the scales is inexcusable.

The first time the lathe fired up, it shredded the belt for one of the two speeds because the motor pulley is not pressed on quite far enough so the belt rides off the idler and catches the sprocket. Don't know how I'll deal with this yet. I do know I'll have to take that assembly apart to change the belt and it looks like a PITA.

One of the cogs on the Y-axis stepper is off-size and catches the belt skipping a tooth and studdering the system. This also creates a "hitch" even when hand-cranking the table. Luckily they provided an extra cog (for the A-axis if you add one) that works. But the diameter is a bit different so I'll have to recalibrate the software.

One of the brackets for the Z-axis DRO was mounted wrong and this broke the Z-axis aluminum channel. There was evidence of two prior repairs to the channel, but neither repair addressed the actual problem. JT says the factory couldn't have done this, but the hole where it should have been mounted has NEVER had a screw in it. I have photos of this and the repairs. JT told me "We don't make mistakes and if we do, we only make them once!" Well then this was the "once" JT.

After the table had locked up and I took apart what I could and put it back together, now the front guard catches the Y-axis transfer assembly regardless of how I try to position it even though I never did take the front cross-shaft pieces off. So I had to sand down the piece of sheet metal where is comes together and is double thickness so it no longer catches. You can see where they had elongated the slots in the past to accomodate this.

I spent literally 16 hours "Dicking" with the MachIII software (e.g., PIN#s) and making a special cable hook-up because they failed to provide this cable and documentation with the original paperwork. JT never responded to my requests for assistance and I had to disassemble the CNC cabinet to figure out the Pin#s.

This list will probably get longer.

I'm in Southern California in the North Tustin area of Orange County.

Can you place one end of the "tube" in the lathe for indexing then clamp the other end in a V-block to "take the pressure of the mill" with the mill offset just slightly?

If you were driling a hole and if your machine has a round column without a bridge, then you could adjust things by eye to hit one particular spot. But with the piece clamped in the lathe, and the mill column height adjustment properly tightened, the only movement of a tool in the mill relative to the workpiece is vertical or rotational. Either the piece or the tool has to be able to move in a straight line along the longitudinal axis of the piece in order to cut splines.

You could do it on the lathe with the piece clamped in the chuck if you had a tool post grinder with some sort of vertical adjustment. I think precision would still be a challenge though.

For things like gears, splined or slotted shafts, curved slots or other milling, a rotary table with spin index attachments is invaluable. I bought this 6" model from Grizzly. It comes with the tailstock and is extremely versatile. I have rarely if ever actually used the tailstock but I use the spin index plates regularly. They sell the table alone for about $40 less than the kit, but want $140 for the index plates and $100 for the tail stock if you buy things separately so I think it's a false economy. The only thing it doesn't come with is a chuck. I just mount my 6" 4-jaw lathe chuck to it when necessary. The hole in the centre is MT-2 so I turned a tool to center the chuck on the table whie I bolt it down through 4 holes I drilled in the chuck to mate up with the t-slots. There's also a 4" version about $150 less, but it only has an MT-1 hole and is too small to mount a 6" chuck vertically so you would need a smaller diameter chuck.

I suspect right now you are hesitant to spend any more money, given your comment about having had nothing but problems with the machine. So, first of all, understand that the problems will lessen as the operator gains experience -- I know mine did. Second, while power-feed will help make a nice finish and is essential for CNC work, you can stop cranking a handle a lot faster than you can hit an emergency stop button. And you can feel things like increased resistance at the end of your travel a lot better too. Consider dispensing with the power feed for the first little while while you get some experience with the machine. And consider coupling things with brass shear pins, aluminium keys, etc. so you have an easy to replace failure point when you do start making use of the power feeds.

Third, I see you are in California. I don't know exactly where but there are a lot of members from that state, and most of the members can be very helpful with each other. I'm sure someone would be happy to spend an afternoon with you showing you how to cut splines in your new shaft on their rotary table/spin indexer. But I don't think the guys with separate machines visit this part of the board very often.

[Torch]

When I mentioned the V-block, my intent was to index the piece in the lathe. Then get the V-block mounted to the table at the same height, so that the piece fits in both simultaneously. Clamp the piece into the block, then release the piece from the lathe. Position the block off-set from the mill and mill the small surface. Then return the V-block/piece assembly to the lathe. Reclamp the piece into the lathe. Unclamp the V-block, and rotate the lathe to the next desired position based on the index and do it all again.

I understand now. Yes, that would probably work. Might be a bit fiddly getting the v-block at exactly the right height, but I think it can be done.

Sounds like you have had more than your fair share of frustrations. It's unfortunate that the manufacturer is providing such poor support. Even though you are not the original owner, and the warranty is obviously expired, he should be standing behind his product and supplying the spare parts.

I'm in Southern California in the North Tustin area of Orange County.

I'm in Ontario. Unfortunately for you that's Ontario Canada rather than Ontario California so I'm probably a bit too far away to be of any practical help. But if it's any consolation, I had to do some 'tune ups' of my machine too -- and mine was brand-new from the factory. They were able to supply some missing parts, but it took 2 or 3 months.

[toddalin]

Thanks to those who have responded.

I contacted Smithy and found that they use a similar piece in their 1220, though it is about 25% longer. The other dimensions are very promising. It is Part # C30118 (spline housing) and sells for <$5 + $8 S/H. I ordered three so I can mess up a couple, have spares, or waste even more money. I bet JT got a lot more than $5 for his pieces. Hopefully we can make this work.

http://www.home-machine-shop.com/Smithy ... trical.pdf