Noob in No.Ga.

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o1marc
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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by o1marc »

In this pic you can see the tool tip is too high off center;
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I don't know how to get the tool tip lower. I tried turning the tool holder upside down but that puts it way too low:
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Harold_V
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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by Harold_V »

Tool bits are not mounted in holders for the indexing head. They mount directly in the head, thus the need for shims. Lose that holder and use some shims and you're good to go.

Your head may require some serious shims---perhaps as thick as ½". Use some square or flat stock to make a small supply. Make the thickest one such that it, along with minor shimming, will center the smallest tool bit you intend to use (most likely ¼"). Then, make similar shims in 1/8" diminishing thickness, down to 1/8". A combination of shim sizes will then permit centering any size tool you may choose to use.

Do bear in mind, when you don't use a holder, rake angle then becomes your responsibility. Tool bits ground for a holder typically won't function well in an index head or quick change, because they are mounted flat (parallel to ground).

Tool holders are intended to be used in conjunction with a rocker (rocker, or lantern type tool post), which is how they are centered. You really don't want that type of post unless you have no desire to make machining easier and faster. Rocker tool posts do NOT permit marking dials. They are a dreadful system for the guy who hopes to get something done. Every tool change (from turning to threading, for example) requires a new setup. That's not true with a turret or quick change.

Harold
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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by o1marc »

Harold, I'm new to machine talk so forgive me but I haven't clue what you said.
What is the indexing head? Which holder are you referring to? mount the bit in what head?

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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by Harold_V »

o1marc wrote:Harold, I'm new to machine talk so forgive me but I haven't clue what you said.
Ok! Didn't realize you knew so little. Not a problem. We'll get you through this thing, and once we do, it will make all kinds of sense.
What is the indexing head?
That's the square block in which you have the tool and holder mounted. When you release the handle on top, it will index to a different position. Most likely you have to move it by hand, but on turret lathes, they advance automatically. No big deal. Mine is manual, too.
Which holder are you referring to?
The tool bit is, right now, mounted in a holder. It's the thing that's held in the square turret, and has a square headed bolt that clamps the tool bit in position. You don't need that, nor any like it unless you use a rocker tool post. You most likely do not have one of those.
mount the bit in what head?
When you remove the holder, the tool will take its place. That's why you need shims, as the holder is quite tall, and the tool is not. Shim it until it hits center. Nothing wrong with using another tool bit (not carbide) to shim the tool, along with some thin stock (feeler gauge, shim stock or even steel strapping). What ever it takes to get the tool dead on center. You can determine that by facing a piece of material. The tools should cut to center, without leaving a pip. If it's too high, it will over ride the pip, rounding it off, but still leaving a trace. If it's too low, the pip will remain, and if your tool is weak enough, you risk pulling the cutting edge off as the tool nears center. Pressure at that point is partially pulling away from the tool.

If you're still lost, please ask again. No sweat!

Harold
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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by Harold_V »

Just noticed something that alarms me. The indexing head should be removed and rotated 180°, so the locking handle doesn't face the chuck. Keep it on the tailstock side (safety).

Harold
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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by o1marc »

When loosening the locking handle it frees everything from the chrome square plate up (the tool post) to be removed from the vise. If you remove it as a unit I don't see how to mount the tool holder. I have everything mounted according to the manual.

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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by o1marc »

Harold_V wrote:Just noticed something that alarms me. The indexing head should be removed and rotated 180°, so the locking handle doesn't face the chuck. Keep it on the tailstock side (safety).

Harold
I just removed the tool post to take a pic and when putting it back on I clocked 180* out. I do know your point though
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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by o1marc »

I guess the vise thing is part of the tool post and the square part with the handle is called the compound tool post. So you are saying remove all of that and something else replaces it to hold the tool holder and bit?
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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by Harold_V »

o1marc wrote:When loosening the locking handle it frees everything from the chrome square plate up (the tool post) to be removed from the vise.
That's a little troubling. The indexing head is generally held by internal means, so the handle can be turned to release the top portion of the square. It should rotate, while the base remains fixed. I'd like you to take the handle off all the way, and take a look at what you find inside. Please bear in mind, I am NOT familiar with that particular machine, so it may be built differently. If it is, that's certainly not desirable, as the indexing head is then useless.
If you remove it as a unit I don't see how to mount the tool holder. I have everything mounted according to the manual.
If you find the indexing head can be secured from inside, you'll have solved the problem. You don't need those tool holders, nor should you use them. Notice how you are so restricted to size when you have one in place? With the cross slide all the way out, you don't have much room between the tool and the centerline of the spindle.

Once again---tool holders are NOT used with any type of indexing post. They are generally used only with a rocker type tool post, which you apparently do not have. Does the manual address tool holders? If so, what does it say?

Harold
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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by o1marc »

It doesn't specifically address "Tool Holders". What it does say about the :
Operation of Tool Post
The compound tool post on the bench can be rotated to keep an angle with the turning axis for turning a bevel face or conical surface. The tool is mounted on the tool rest of the compound tool post. the graduations on the front of the base of tool post are from left 60* to right 60*. By turning the Tool post Handle Wheel, fine feed can be achieved. By rotating the Handle for Locking Tool post counter-clockwise, the upper section of the compound tool post can be moved to the right and the lower section can be used as a bench clamp.

I just checked the drawer of tools and accessories I got with this machine and there are no rocker type tool holders with it.

What is the compound tool post used for on this machine if not to hold the tool?
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Harold_V
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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by Harold_V »

Please refer to my last post and pay attention to the part about installing the indexing head such that the base remains fixed when the handle is released. If you can't overcome the problem of the head coming loose when you turn the handle, the indexing head is useless. You'll have to dismantle the head to inspect the mounting procedure. The handle, on top, should NOT play a role in mounting.

Harold
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Re: Noob in No.Ga.

Post by o1marc »

The handle connects to a bolt that goes through the whole unit that when tightened just sandwiches the whole tool post and compound tool post to the bench clamp. I don't think it was intended for anything else.

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