Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask owners

This forum is dedicated to those hobbyists with the 3-in-1 metalworking machines. Mill-Drill-Lathes. Tips, techniques, modification and use of these machines is topical.

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toddalin
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by toddalin »

Torch wrote:The good news is that new R8 ones are available. It may take a while to get it though, since it probably has to come from China. MT3 ones are more common and might even be in stock in places like Grizzly.

I think I actually still have my original MT3 spindle somewhere. I swapped it out for an R8.
Available from who? JT doesn't think he has any at ShopMaster. I need to send him the measurements to see if he has something that will work.
Torch
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by Torch »

toddalin wrote:Available from who? JT doesn't think he has any at ShopMaster. I need to send him the measurements to see if he has something that will work.
If I'm right, it's the standard size used on all the Chinese machines of that basic design. Post the measurements here and I'll either dig out my old one or if I no longer have it, I'll measure up the one in the machine.

Do these look familiar?
HQ800V:
mill_head_parts800v.jpg
Grizzly 4791:
mill_spindle_g4791.jpg
Craftex B2229:
Pages from B2229.jpg
Harbor Freight (and I think this one came with R8 as standard):
HF_L-H007_spindle_bearings.jpg
HF_L-H007_spindle_bearings.jpg (12.64 KiB) Viewed 8013 times
The Chinese have a centrally planned economy. Right down to the correct spindle size.
toddalin
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by toddalin »

Thanks Torch!

Similar, but may not be exactly the same as to bearing size/placement, length of fluted/solid sections, etc. It is hard to tell because the drawings are so crude. But it may well be the same. No. 17 is the broken piece.

What measurements do I/you need to ensure the piece will work?

I did send a picture and note to Tom Sorenson, but he has not responded. He came to my rescue on the other shaft that I was able to modify.

BTW, the reason that the bearings ceased was that the lower round bolt had not been "staked" with the spider washer at the factory so worked its way down to the bearing putting excessive tension on it freezing up the rollers.
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toddalin
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by toddalin »

Here is a picture of the spindle within the sleeve next to a ruler. The fluted area is about 6.9" long above the threads. I assume that the number on the bearing provides some indication as to their dimensions and this could be checked against the replacement part. The numbers on the lower bearing are apparently on the inside where I can't see them.

Now that I've removed the two round nuts, can I put the sleeve back into the mill and supporting the bottom of the sleeve on a couple pieces of 2" x 4" wood, knock the spindle straight down with a dead blow hammer with a cushion of wood to knock it out, or does it come out some other way?

Thank you.

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Torch
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by Torch »

toddalin wrote:What measurements do I/you need to ensure the piece will work?
I'm virtually certain, from those images, that the dimensions are identical within a thousandth of an inch.

Ok, maybe not the length, but the bearing numbers, upper and lower, are identical to mine. That means the diameters are the same. Your lower bearing is 35mm bore x 62mm OD and 18mm thick. Your upper bearing is 30mm bore x 55mm OD x 17mm thick, if those numbers are right.

All these machines are based on the Anhui Chizhou Household Machine Tool Co.,Ltd HQ500/800 series machines (I have their HQ800V model). They have a few different options so that house brands can be customized somewhat, but the machines are all pretty much the same basic casting and design. In many cases, vendors even keep the Chizhou part numbers as their own.

R8 mill spindle option:
Harbor Freight HF44142
WHOLESALE TOOLS - 3-in-1 R8 Multi-Purpose Machine (WT)

MT3 mill spindle option:
Grizzly G9729
Smithy Midas 1220LTD
Enco 328-1310
Bolton Tools AT750/BT800
Craftex B2229
Everbest EB-HQ800
QTMT - Item # 87-115-935/Model # QT25531
SUMORE - Item # SP2307/Model # SP2307

I've seen some others that I suspect are really part of the same family above, but haven't verified spindles, etc.

I ordered my machine from the factory with the options I wanted. I ordered it through Pat O'Banion at MachineToolsWarehouse.com. He's in Canada, but if all else fails, he might be able to help.
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by toddalin »

Torch wrote:
toddalin wrote:What measurements do I/you need to ensure the piece will work?
I'm virtually certain, from those images, that the dimensions are identical within a thousandth of an inch.

Ok, maybe not the length, but the bearing numbers, upper and lower, are identical to mine. That means the diameters are the same. Your lower bearing is 35mm bore x 62mm OD and 18mm thick. Your upper bearing is 30mm bore x 55mm OD x 17mm thick, if those numbers are right.

All these machines are based on the Anhui Chizhou Household Machine Tool Co.,Ltd HQ500/800 series machines (I have their HQ800V model).
If you look at the part number for the ShopMaster spindle it is DG800-... Perhaps, as you say, this is a reference to the original part.

Thanks,

As I asked above, is that an appropriate way to free the spindle from the sleeve or do I need a press or ???
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by Torch »

If you use a dead-blow, you may need to replace the bearings, or at least, the upper bearing. A press is less likely to indent the bearing races.
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by toddalin »

Thanks Torch,

I noticed that the Smithy Granite uses the R8 spindle. I contacted Tom Sorenson and he said that the Granites are made in a different factory.

From Tom: "I'm sorry but we have never offered an R8 spindle for what is our CB/Midas series machines. The Granite machines come from a different factory and there is no interchangeability between the two series machines at all."

Just because there is no interchangeability between the Granite and Midas does not mean that ShopMaster did not use the same piece as the Granite, but I've no way to verify this.

JT wants $470 plus shipping to change the spindle in the sleeve. Seems a bit high, but may be the only show in town.

Smithy's R8 spindle, used in the Granite is $102.55, if it will work. This is back-ordered, but is due today. Smithy said that means it could be as much as another 2 weeks.
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by toddalin »

I have also considered another option that may be viable, cheaper, won't even require me to remove the spindle from the sleeve, and will "future-proof" the machine against dis-continuation of this part.

I have seen the splined shaft available in different lengths/diameters/designs. Some of this appears to be similar to that used in these machines.

There is about 1.2" of "dead space" along the shaft within the casting between the top round bolt above the threads and the splined pulley, above, that the spline shaft sits within. This portion is very wide and could easily accept a "coupler" that would have an ID to match the OD of the old shaft, cut down to 0.6" long above the round bolts, and a new shaft, above, to ride within the gear. The new shaft does not need to have the exact same profile, so long as it fits within the splined gear properly (25 mm OD along the splines) and has an ID that can accomodate the bolt for the collets.

The coupler could just be a tight aluminum sleeve that is drilled and tapped for three (or six) Allen keys into each of the two shafts. If there is future breakage, it would in all probability be along the replacement shaft that could easily be removed and changed.

The Allen key ways could even have springs and ball bearings to act as an adjustable "clutch."

Would 0.6" be enough shaft to grab to ensure proper engagement without undue stress?

Actually, I found they have 25 mm couplers that are 1.25" long ready made for under $20!

Ideas/comments anyone?

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Thanks
toddalin
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by toddalin »

I had a thought. How much pressure does it take to press it out?

Can I put the end of the spindle in my live end for the lathe, and drill an appropriate size hole in a 2" x 4" board for the mill end and mount the wood it in the vise, mounted to the table, and use the table screw to push out the shaft... or it this too much stress on the table?

Thanks.
Torch
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by Torch »

When I changed out mine, I whacked the old one out with a mallet and a block of maple. I split the maple in the process. You can try a vise, but it better be a big, strong vise. That puppy is in there but good.

The coupling is an interesting idea, but it wouldn't be my first choice. Any play in the coupling may lead to vibration and vibration will lead to a rougher finish. I think I would prefer a solid piece if possible. Did you try calling/e-mailing Pat at Machine Tools Warehouse? He's a pretty good guy to deal with.
toddalin
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Re: Shop Task 3in1 machines Looking for fellow Shoptask own

Post by toddalin »

Torch wrote:When I changed out mine, I whacked the old one out with a mallet and a block of maple. I split the maple in the process. You can try a vise, but it better be a big, strong vise. That puppy is in there but good.

The coupling is an interesting idea, but it wouldn't be my first choice. Any play in the coupling may lead to vibration and vibration will lead to a rougher finish. I think I would prefer a solid piece if possible. Did you try calling/e-mailing Pat at Machine Tools Warehouse? He's a pretty good guy to deal with.

Thank, will did it today and left word for him to call back.

I guess I could try the live end/wood and see if the shaft starts to push out without undue pressure.

A 25mm OD, 21mm across the rounds, and 5mm across the splines, Huco spline shaft is available, but is solid steel (not that sintered stuff). A 6.5" piece could be cut and drilled to the 14mm ID for the draw bolt.

With some Allen keys, their sleeve could even be used as the coupler.

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