E-Mail today, Offer casting fully Machine

[Steve Alley]

Just got a e-mail today asking for full machine castings to offer as a kit. For those out there that has build a Allen Model engine, I am sure you understand the work involve. There is just to many part castings to offer this. I have develop some of what I think is the hardest parts to make finish or at lease very little work to do to have a complete read to install part. Laser cut parts, Water Jet frames, Machine Link and Block, I have also have a Machinist that is machining read to run cylinders as in the Scratch built set. The time and cost is the problem. Sky is the limit on offering these parts. But to have all 450 cast parts offer complete and read to install is out of the question. It would take 10 years and a load of money even if I was not to draw a paycheck. I have expanded this company and added or change castings offered. I will continue to do so. More laser parts in kit form someday for Tender tank kits. These and other things are not just on the drawing board but near complete to send off to be made. Problem is money to get them done and have them on the site to offer. Time and money is the issue. Sale has increase over or at 30% so far per year. Level of parts offer has increase, new engines has increase and more to offer in coming years. I have a new Cylinder that is being develop with outside valve gear or alignment of cylinder, 3/8" outside for Walsharts valve gear. So you will be able to built any engine with it.
This gentleman is correct, I am missing a opportunity to offer a complete ready to assemble engines for castings. But how to get there from here is a complete expensive in money and time to do so. We have lost the area of home shop Machinist start up. Cost, room, the wife that will let you, But not the desire. This is the most important part. If you truly want a engine, You will find the way and money to do it. But to learn how and understanding is key. We need to push in school the trade shops. Need to offer these classes to the future of our hobby. Please support this and ask at a county level. State level also. Push for this. Not just for our hobby but all levels, Machine shop, Wood shop, Welding shop, Electrical shop, Drafting shop, Chemical, on and on. Not every kid can have straight A's, and the ones left behind needs a place on this earth to earn a living. By the way I got D's in school, but had shop classes that keep me involve.
Steve Alley

[10KPete]

It seems to me that one would need to build the loco then tear it down and ship off the pieces! Seems sorta silly. I would leave that stuff to the custom or commission loco builder. You can't be all to everyone!!!

Pete

[Trainman4602]

Years ago the original Little Engines offered machined parts. Their advertisement in Popular Mechanics read "A BOLT TOGETHER KIT" I would laugh at this statement.

On the driver and main axle print there was a note. It read something like this. If the axle is a little to large just take some emery cloth and alla the "shoe shine method' take a few thousand off. It would take about 20 full sheets of emery and sore fingers and about two week of working 8 hour a day to do it. Imagine that you can do such a thing without a lathe. Will it be perfectly round? What if the axle was to small LOCTITE it,Bill Shields likes that stuff right. Sorry Bill I couldn't help myself.

To offer a machined kit that can just be assembled would be a total nightmare. You would have to have fixtures for all castings even though you used a CNC machine to make them. You would also need go and no-go gauges for everything. A quality control department, micrometers that were gauge checked. No one could afford the kit. Speaking from a suppliers point of view of 45 years this would be next to impossible and extremely cost prohibited.

But on the same hand if you had the potential to sell 100,000 kits then YEA it would work,but in this hobby.

OS models offered an 1 1/2 inch mogul but it think it is no longer available for that reason. I wonder if anyone knows how many kits were sold by OS

The guy who sent that email is so far off the mark it is not even funny.

[Fender]

The other amusing part of that photo is that it shows the 4-2-0 pulling a train with four adults and one child.

[Trainman4602]

The locomotive was standing still for the photo no doubt. I don't think that locomotive can pull much the 4-4-0 is a bit heaver and can't pull more then the operator.

[JKreider]

And it is possible that the locomotive wasn't even fired up. I was there one day when Irene was pulling locomotives out and people were posing on them just for a catalog shoot.

[Steve Alley]

Well some great comments. David hit it on the noise. Little engines had this ability, and also when I first got in to this hobby and I bought a used burn up RRSC American, I bought parts from them. Some machine and some not. I bought my diamond stack finish. Ya know it was bad. But to have Wheels axles and such that has press fit no way. I never make my axles first. Always after I have bore and ream the wheels then measure.

I have built 8 Ken Schroeder's Shay's and there are a little different as I got faster and better in machining them. Improvements as I go and also better fixtures. So I have been down this road and Most likely more than others. Not bragging just saying I have done it.

Just the layout of money and time that goes into this, before you can put it up for sale. David knows. You got to have it and tell them the count. If not they think there is a never ending supply's. It always been in this hobby, If you see it buy it because you may never get it again. Suppliers come and go. Then move on after flooding the market on one product. Head lights are always that one item in our hobby that keeps appealing all the time. More supplier have these. I am sitting on 30 of one type and 20 of the other. Ruff castings and a lot of work in have a presentable product to sell.

So here is what I came up with, keep going as I have and introduce project of hard to make things in Laser cut and water jet. But I am going to run out of ideas on these sooner or later. I am and most likely not going to supply cars. But new trucks maybe. I have look into Couplers and will some day re due the patterns but that is about all. Maybe a loop shank coupler also.

I have four other engine in mind to do. A short American that I am working on right now to introduce. I had bought patterns and casting from a de-funk supplier of 2 1/2" engine. But after modeling and measuring the original engine. These castings were so far off. Now I am going to self this project and one day get back to it and correct patterns to do it correctly.

I Thank you for your input to this question and see quality people chime in and I respect what was said. Bottom line, it can not be done with so many parts and piece, without spending deep deep pockets. Besides I would what to see the same old engine over and over again at the same track. Allen has a big bit of this hobby now, as in there is a lot of them out there. But there personal and I think we should keep it that way. Kit bash is where its at.
Sorry if people thing I am venting but I always wonder if it could be done. Yes but not by me.

Steve

[Harlock]

I think Steve has hit a good balance with the laser parts. You are saving hundreds of hours if you buy all the laser parts available for a given engine.

O.S. Live Steam managed to make a bolt together 7.5" gauge kit, the Mogul. and it actually is a no-bones bolt together, the person I know who has assembled one had very little difficulty doing so. Working full time, he assembled it in about two weeks. It is extremely finely engineered, and the price reflects that. And for that price you get a light, copper-boilered 100 PSI engine that looks like a lionel model. I'd rather have a heavy engine with castings that will pull a good load up good grades.

As technology continues to improve and the cost of small run automated production decreases, this all may change, but for now machine it yourself is the name of the game.

[Dick_Morris]

I agree that the bolt together kit is impractical. But in addition to the water jet parts there is some room for CNC parts in lieu of castings. Wheels, side rods, and frame spreaders come to mind as items that may be cost competitive with castings. No need for the investment in making and storing patterns or to have to carry a stock of seldom used castings to meet the minimum foundry order.

Having said that, personally, I'd rather do my own machining from castings or solid material or fabricate parts by welding or silver soldering.

[James Powell]

https://www.stationroadsteam.com/new-build-locomotives/

http://www.maxitrak.com/maxitrak-locomotives

Or, if you'd prefer, I believe you will find enough of the Winson/Steam Traction World locos out there. These go up to 5" 2-10-0, so, not "small"...just note, like my Stuart Turner S-50, without machine tools of any form, it may be quite a faffle to assemble a "bolt together" kit...because it still requires fitting. OS made 4-6-2 and 2-10-0 engine kits...just not in 7.x gauge. Because they were aimed at the Japanese market, they are in 3.5" gauge. I've not seen complaints about them. (again, beyond that you have to assemble the kit, and some hand fitting is required). Same thing in smaller scales, all the way down to Gauge 1, where the Aster kits have a reputation of fine workmanship, but still requiring fitting to assemble.

[Mr Ron]

Another factor that can defeat the "bolt together" idea, is the cost of tooling. You mention using a CNC laser steel to make parts, like drivers, frames, etc. The cost of a laser CNC that can cut steel can easily run into 6 figure dollars. Only large industries like automobile or shipyards can afford to use such a tool.

[AusDan]

https://www.stationroadsteam.com/new-build-locomotives/

http://www.maxitrak.com/maxitrak-locomotives

Or, if you'd prefer, I believe you will find enough of the Winson/Steam Traction World locos out there. These go up to 5" 2-10-0, so, not "small"...just note, like my Stuart Turner S-50, without machine tools of any form, it may be quite a faffle to assemble a "bolt together" kit...because it still requires fitting. OS made 4-6-2 and 2-10-0 engine kits...just not in 7.x gauge. Because they were aimed at the Japanese market, they are in 3.5" gauge. I've not seen complaints about them. (again, beyond that you have to assemble the kit, and some hand fitting is required). Same thing in smaller scales, all the way down to Gauge 1, where the Aster kits have a reputation of fine workmanship, but still requiring fitting to assemble.

I would of thought its not exactly an apple for apple comparison, looking at the maxitrak, Li jo 7.25" which can be done up as mogul, is $20,616 USD, which gets you a loco less than 36" and dry weight of 167 pound. Alot of money for smallish bundle (26,000AUD) I would of though to small and under weight compared typical US models