Model Steam Pressure Gauges

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jkimberln
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by jkimberln » Tue May 26, 2020 6:33 pm

See Model Engineer 20 May 1988, page 602. Roy Amsbury describes how he made duplex vacuum gauges. And the one shown is something like 5/8" OD or 3/4" over the case. I'd like to have one about 1 1/4" OD for air pressure. I have the plans (sort of) for a 6" duplex vacuum gauge that could probably be changed to pressure, but I haven't attempted making it in reduced size yet. Probably won't.

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apm
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by apm » Tue May 26, 2020 7:45 pm

Harlock wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 4:10 pm
Soot n' Cinders wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 10:05 pm
For all these air systems, Id love to see a miniature duplex gauge. But Im sure that would be quite the critter to squeeze together and get working.
Yea even the full size Westinghouse test gauges are still a bit big for my 3" scale loco. There are some small duplex gauges made for automotive use but they are totally the wrong thing in terms of form factor and finish, and would be harder to adapt like these.
I have given some thought to doing just that. There is a 150psig automotive duplex gauge out there that would fit a case with a final size around 2.25" diameter by about 1.25" deep. I have the guts of it sitting on my work bench. That one would be a bit more work to get it all to work and wouldn't be cheap for the final product. Then you are still stuck with one pressure range (150psig) which may not work for everyone's engines. Harlock would you be able to bend your pressure preference of 100psig or less to go with one of those? No idea on the actual performance down at 8-18psig.

Of course in that size it will really only work in the larger locomotives. I couldn't find anything smaller to get something even a little large for 1.5" scale.

Lastly what is the pressure preference for the next run of larger gauges 200psig or 300psig?

Berkman
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by Berkman » Tue May 26, 2020 9:03 pm

Duplex gauges would be awesome.

Didn't someone likes Coles make very very small gauges years back that were a good fit for 1.5 scale in cab air gauges?
I think you would find a lot of customers wanting air gauges even if just your normal size or slightly smaller if you also offered the 100psi range.

Also these gauges look great!

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SZuiderveen
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by SZuiderveen » Tue May 26, 2020 10:28 pm

My friend John’s Sandy River #23 cab.
612AD651-B79F-4BC8-BD76-05EBBF587AFB.jpeg
Steve

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Dick_Morris
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by Dick_Morris » Tue May 26, 2020 10:58 pm

Cole's had a 1" diameter gauge and Godhall's now has a listing for them but they are shown as all sold out. My recollection is that the Cole's catalog's disclaimer about availability was that they were made by one person in his spare time.

Steve Goodbody
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by Steve Goodbody » Wed May 27, 2020 8:39 am

Hi all,

Regarding the duplex gauge, I made my vacuum version from the guts of two small commercial gauges mounted back-to-back and offset, with an extension spindle from the one in the rear. This assembly then mounted in some bored-out 2" tube as a thin-walled case. Even at 2 inches diameter it was fiddly, especially the internal piping, but it worked out okay and both gauges read accurately.
P1013140.JPG
Best regards
Steve

Berkman
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by Berkman » Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 am

These are gauges I was talking about.... borrowed from Jack's site.
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Harlock
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by Harlock » Wed May 27, 2020 12:50 pm

apm wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:45 pm
Harlock wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 4:10 pm
Soot n' Cinders wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 10:05 pm
For all these air systems, Id love to see a miniature duplex gauge. But Im sure that would be quite the critter to squeeze together and get working.
Yea even the full size Westinghouse test gauges are still a bit big for my 3" scale loco. There are some small duplex gauges made for automotive use but they are totally the wrong thing in terms of form factor and finish, and would be harder to adapt like these.
I have given some thought to doing just that. There is a 150psig automotive duplex gauge out there that would fit a case with a final size around 2.25" diameter by about 1.25" deep. I have the guts of it sitting on my work bench. That one would be a bit more work to get it all to work and wouldn't be cheap for the final product. Then you are still stuck with one pressure range (150psig) which may not work for everyone's engines. Harlock would you be able to bend your pressure preference of 100psig or less to go with one of those? No idea on the actual performance down at 8-18psig.

Of course in that size it will really only work in the larger locomotives. I couldn't find anything smaller to get something even a little large for 1.5" scale.

Lastly what is the pressure preference for the next run of larger gauges 200psig or 300psig?
Well, I think it could induce me to get the steam pump going sooner. Does 2.25" diameter include the brass bezel on the outside? Let me know if you have a rough cost range in mind yet.

Regarding 200 vs. 300 PSI, there was a lot of interest in your large gauge in the 15" gauge group. Those people will want 300 PSI as they usually run around 150 PSI in code boilers for their 3" to 5" scale locos. For 7.5" running 100 to 125 PSI the 200 PSI gauges would be great. I would do a little of both.

I think if you made five 300 PSI gauges and five 200 PSI gauges you would sell them all. I just confirmed with one person that tried to order one after they sold out that he wanted 300 PSI.

-M
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
Live Steam Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com
Product Development and E-Commerce, Allen Models of Nevada

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apm
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by apm » Sat May 30, 2020 2:39 pm

Hi Harlock,

The next round of the larger pressure gauges are now in the works both in 300psig and 200psig ranges. As this is a spare time venture not sure exactally when they will be done. Hopefully within a few weeks. We are looking at and giving more thought on the duplex gauge. Do you think 150psig would be a deal killer or would it work? For something that beautiful and cool maybe you could just add some springs to your brake cylinders to make the system run at a higher pressure. What are the 15" gauge guys running for air brake pressure?

Berkman I took a look at the photo you shared of Jack Bodenmann's Berkshire, what a work of art that is. Assuming those are commercially available pressure gauges I am pretty sure that they are this style of gauge https://www.mcmaster.com/pressure-gauge ... re-gauges/. In this type there is a wound spring behind there and the gauge only makes a 180deg or so motion on it. I had looked into using some of those style gauges when I made these for my locomotive but never quite thought they looked right. However it seems that Jack did a wonderful job of making those gauges look authentic in his locomotive. I am thinking he is using this style gauge for the two upper gauges also. Makes me wonder if there would be demand for a tiny gauge like this with the right artwork behind it.

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Harlock
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by Harlock » Sat May 30, 2020 5:19 pm

apm wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 2:39 pm
Hi Harlock,

The next round of the larger pressure gauges are now in the works both in 300psig and 200psig ranges. As this is a spare time venture not sure exactally when they will be done. Hopefully within a few weeks. We are looking at and giving more thought on the duplex gauge. Do you think 150psig would be a deal killer or would it work? For something that beautiful and cool maybe you could just add some springs to your brake cylinders to make the system run at a higher pressure. What are the 15" gauge guys running for air brake pressure?
yea I can live with 150 PSI dual gauge in consideration of aesthetics.

Can one gauge be black and one be red? This is the gauge I'd like it to resemble, with two moon dials:
1930s-ashcroft-westinghouse-brass_1_dce26472876541247e5ab8b6ea194e70.jpg
If you google "westinghouse dual airbrake gauge" you'll get an eye full. They are often on Ebay for reasonable prices.

The Star brass version has a brass faceplate but uglier lettering:
westinghouse-steam-locomotive-air_1_f8cd2f583b69320d219603f0fa3abd0c.jpg
and here's another ashcroft with a nice fat bezel:
westinghouse-steam-locomotive-brass_1_5d0cfcfe7a5663ff8976e356e9ef7b8d.jpg
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
Live Steam Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com
Product Development and E-Commerce, Allen Models of Nevada

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Harlock
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by Harlock » Sat May 30, 2020 5:25 pm

Regarding the question about 15", a quick survey indicates that they run around 100 PSI resovoir with the pumps they've got, and the brakes will lock up much earlier than that so that full pressure is never applied. So 150 - 200 PSI gauge would work.

There's definitely interest in a scale dual gauge for 15", there's at least a couple of people who would buy one right away. Are you thinking the same size or do you have a slightly larger size dual gauge available for 15" cabs. (3" or so)
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
Live Steam Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com
Product Development and E-Commerce, Allen Models of Nevada

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SZuiderveen
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Re: Model Steam Pressure Gauges

Post by SZuiderveen » Sat May 30, 2020 6:36 pm

The US Gauge about eight posts up is a dual needle gauge with one of the handss removed.
apm, if I send you the particulars, could you do a one-off face for us, I’ll send camera ready for the quadrant and numbers.
450F06AF-D145-4659-90F5-D41166176E01.jpeg
Steve

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