Jaeger (Hercules) engine compression

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pkastagehand
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Re: Jaeger (Hercules) engine compression

Post by pkastagehand » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:49 pm

J Tiers wrote:Got a Jaeger recently, that won't stay running. Good spark, got fuel, real good compression. Should go.

It DOES "pop", but won't keep going. The issue is that it always seems to bounce off of compression the next cycle... can't store enough energy in the flywheels to get over-center on the next compression. With compression released it spins nicely, so that isn't a problem.
Sounds like you've got this solved but I thought I'd throw out something for your interest.

I had a 1-1/2 HP Economy that I could start by bouncing it backwards. I would get it primed by pulling through a normal intake stroke with slight choke. Once intake is complete piston will be at BDC ready for compression. Then set choke and mixture as they should be for normal running. So then instead of continuing with a forward pull through compression to start it I would pull the top of the flywheel the wrong way just hard enough for it to hit compression and trip the magneto, but not hard enough to get it past TDC. It would fire and kick forward and start running from there. It always impressed anyone who knew enough about it to see that you spun the flywheel backwards at first. The general public didn't know the difference usually.

Old collector friend showed me that trick. Don't remember what engine he did it with. It will only work if your magneto fires in either direction and early enough to keep it from going past TDC in the wrong direction.

willy

Post by willy » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:45 pm

If you are still having problems with this engine there is a simple way to find out if it is timed correctly. Hercules put a "spark" word on the outside of the flywheel on the magneto side. The "spark" word should line up with the valve rod. My guess is your mag may be timed too early and is stopping the engine. If you lift up the retard lever, does it run correctly?

Willy

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J Tiers
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Post by J Tiers » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:02 pm

If you have it timed correctly, I think it shouldn't start on a reverse, because it is supposed to spark just before TDC, apparently. The retard lever may or may not delay it that long.... dunno. I have a Hercules manual on order from Harry M.

This has a timing mark which is lined up with the flywheel key, that's supposed to be right. No "spark" marking. But then, it seems to be running OK now.

And, nope, not selling it on ebay, although I might not put it past someone to link to a pic and do a fraud. If I knew about it I'd fix them up a nice pic saying "fraud" and showing a piece of dog turd........

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Post by ronm » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:16 pm

J Tiers wrote: And, nope, not selling it on ebay, although I might not put it past someone to link to a pic and do a fraud. If I knew about it I'd fix them up a nice pic saying "fraud" and showing a piece of dog turd........
That's what I thought I had found when I saw that engine-right down to the color of the spark plug wire...had to look several times to notice the skid is different.

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J Tiers
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Post by J Tiers » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:06 pm

What is funny is that I bought it originally with the idea of maybe giving it to a friend of mine who also likes them.

But, once I got it, with it being my only hit and miss, among a bunch of little Briggs, and johnson etc, engines, I couldn't do it...... At least not until I got it going right. And that "would take all the fun out" for my friend..... or so I tell myself!

So, no I'm not selling it now, but I hadn't planned to keep it.

willy

Post by willy » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:36 am

Sometimes.... and I do mean some times..... people dont have a true picture of their toy and broorw a pic from some one else. So on Ebay it really is "buyer be ware".

Willy

PS you will love the book. the part about what to use for a feeler guage for the ignition points, or the underground muffler.

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Post by pkastagehand » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:53 am

J Tiers wrote:If you have it timed correctly, I think it shouldn't start on a reverse, because it is supposed to spark just before TDC, apparently. The retard lever may or may not delay it that long.... dunno.
Are you commenting on my post about spinning it backwards? It doesn't actually start running backwards. It does fire before TDC in either direction. When it fires, it kicks it back forward. Probably not the best thing in the world on bearings, etc. but then it's not like it is running at a hundred RPM backwards then suddenly trying to reverse it.

willy

Post by willy » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:39 pm

Actually, in the book it tells of back starting large (8 hp +) as a typical operation. So dont worry about it, if this is what works for you. Most clubs like to see people have some different ways to start the engine, keeps from being mundane.

As to the timing the engine, it should fire normally at 10 degrees before and the lever up should be 10 degree after. This way with lever up there is no chance of kickback.

My fave trick to do with a 4 hp Hercules I had was to use 1.25 black iron pipe on the exhaust. If you cut the end off of a soda can you could slip it over the pipe at the right time and "pop" it over the crowd.

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J Tiers
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Post by J Tiers » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:57 pm

Well I got my books from Harry Matthews. They are high quality printing, one of the Hercules manual, one of the Wico EK manual. I also bought the Hercules history book.

The manuals cover anything one would want to know.... I'd recommend them.

Now when I get some time I'll have to get the last bit of the adjustments done.... They are very close to correct now, but just enough off to notice.

See what having the manual does.... gets one going to do it right.

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Hecules

Post by 2-8-0 » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:55 pm

Hi,

I just picked up a 1916 Hecules 1 1/2 hp E. It has a all brass Webster mag. It would run but wouldnt restart easy. Charged the mag. Same thing. It turned out to be a small leak to the ignitor. Rebuilt the ignitor. Now she runs like brand new. Pull the flywheel a few turns to prime it and on the 3 or 4th pull she fires right up.

You wont have an ignitor seeing you have a WICO EK mag and spark plug.

Neil

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