GG1 in large scale?

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pwcphoto
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by pwcphoto »

An interesting article http://dcist.com/2013/01/post_55.php#photo-1 about an amazing locomotive.
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RMI 3.75" scale Prairie 2-6-2 under construction.
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http://www.southerncalifornialivesteamers.com/Forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=18&SID=336957b14adb9765a37dez9785dz6cz7&title=steam-locomotive-construction
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Benjamin Maggi
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by Benjamin Maggi »

Pontiacguy1 wrote: Reason: They are a very specific locomotive that was built and used by only 1 railroad: The Pennsylvania. You don't see C&NW, D&H or any other road that had GG1s, although I think that at lest one or two of them were painted for Conrail.
While your point is valid, Amtrak also had at least a couple. I think the silver with red noses is extremely attractive.
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by Fender »

I believe the reason for the GG1's being retired was not due to operating costs or maintainability, but because the utilities were phasing out the 25 hz power they required, and Amtrak had to switch over to 60 hz.
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Ben Maggi: My point was that there was only 1 railroad that produced the original GG1 locomotive. The only railroad that ever had New GG1s on their roster was the Pennsylvania. Sorry- I just re-read what you wrote, there.

I'm actually quite glad to hear that someone is producing these. I think it would be great to see, however, I still say that it would be difficult to produce such a model and make it cost-effective based on what I believe is a limited demand. There are a lot of very specific parts, and that needs to be spread out over a lot of models for it to be very cost effective, and I can't see that many people wanting to build a GG1 in that scale/size. I may be wrong, though, and it won't have been the first time either!

I hope that the RMI guys have a good go of it. It will be interesting to see the locomotive. That thing was a real powerhouse in its day. At over 10' long, it would be longer than a EMD E unit.
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by PRR5406 »

David, the PRR GG1 is probably the most iconic electric locomotive on earth. In scale, I think it would be a stunner. You might be able to spread ten individual GG1's around the country, and considering the original Pennsy operating color schemes, the variety could be pretty amazing at meets. Would it be affordable to the average hobbyist? What about transporting it to meets? What would the minimum radius allowable be?
Please keep us informed of the decision making progress.
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by jscarmozza »

David, here's my two cents; I think there's a market for the GG1 although it may be limited because of its regional use. As far how to make the kit, allow me to tell you the story of my 1" scale GG1. When I bought the project about 6 years ago the builder that sold it to me said it was a prototype for a kit made in the 1960s. The project included a 1/2" thick cast iron body, wheels chassis and motors along with the casting patterns for the body and wheels.

The previous builder showed me a photo of the body with all of the details sculpted into a thick layer of Bondo covering the cast iron body, it looked good but wasn't very durable and the builder removed it all because of chips and de-lamination. When I took over the project I knew I didn't want to redo the body in Bondo, but I didn't t know how to proceed.

At that time Live Steam ran a series on a group of builders making about a half dozen F7s for their club, that article inspired me to try to make the body from sheet steal. It took me about 3 weeks working nights after work all day Saturday's and half a day on Sunday's to complete the first 'nose', the second nose only took me a week, the center of the body was a piece of cake. The issue now was the details, doors, lights, windows, louvers, ladders, steps, etc... I,m also building a 1" LE Atlantic, with a steam engine the mechanism is the finished product for the most part, with the GG1 it 's the details.

I can go into a very lengthy discussion of my failures with regard to my attempts to fabricate them, but my point of this long winded post was to ask if you considered making longitudinal dies of the body and stamping the halfs from sheet metal? I have no idea of the costs involved in making the dies, so it may be cost prohibitive, but from my experience, for adding the details it may be the best way (as you can see I'm hung up on details!) My body is made up of multiple pieces of sheet steal brazed together; it's going to take a lot of hammer and dolly work, and some Bondo to finish the body. I'd post a few picture if I knew how, when my niece stops by I'll see if she can help me. For PRR fans it's a must have!
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by aopagary »

GG1 at Train Mountain yesterday...
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by aopagary »

David Coster wrote:Yes, there is a company working on bringing a GG1 to market in 1.6 scale, ...
why 1.6"? your main market would probably be the Northeast where 1:8 scale is a much better match to 7.25" gauge plus does a locomotive this massive really need to be 20% heavier than it could be for the sake of 7/32"? just a thought.

cheers...gary
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by chooch »

Why should anyone keep suggesting for certain 7 plus gauge locomotives or equipment. I for one think the Northeast US is in the Minority of 7 plus gauge track and equipment (7-1/4 gauge).

If Anything, a locomotive as large as a GG1 and, possibly limited to production, I think would be built available to "Change"--easily re-gauged to Both 7-1/2 or 7-1/4. You never know when a geographical move might be required, a sale, whatever.
Speaking of Non-steam locos.
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by redneckalbertan »

chooch wrote:Why should anyone keep suggesting for ceequipment. lus gauge locomotives or equipment. I for one think the Northeast US is in the Minority of 7 plus gauge track and equipment (7-1/4 gauge).

If Anything, a locomotive as large as a GG1 and, possibly limited to production, I think would be built available to "Change"--easily re-gauged to Both 7-1/2 or 7-1/4. You never know when a geographical move might be required, a sale, whatever.
Speaking of Non-steam locos.
chooch
No reason, in my mind, to limit your comment to non steam equipment. I think with a little forethought a person can build a steam engine to be easily regaugeable so one can travel, if they wish, and participate at railroads accross the continent.
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by aopagary »

chooch wrote:Why should anyone keep suggesting for certain 7 plus gauge locomotives or equipment. I for one think the Northeast US is in the Minority of 7 plus gauge track and equipment (7-1/4 gauge).
not when you consider the rest of the world. in fact i would think electric prototypes would be even more popular in Europe.
chooch wrote:If Anything, a locomotive as large as a GG1 and, possibly limited to production, I think would be built available to "Change"--easily re-gauged to Both 7-1/2 or 7-1/4. You never know when a geographical move might be required, a sale, whatever.
Speaking of Non-steam locos.
chooch
it was already mentioned that the proposed 1.6"/ft model would be available in both 7.25 and 7.5 so i'm not sure what you point is. many 1.5" scale models are gauged to 7.5". the more important factor to me is that when this concession is made, the model wheel gauge is wider than prototype. the problem i see with any 1.6"/ft model is that in either case (1.6"/ft scale on 7.25" or 7.5" gauge) the wheel gauge is narrower than the prototype. a more stable and less massive configuration would sound good to me.

i understand the reason for 1.6"/ft scale in diesels where a popular motor used would have a problem fitting in a 1:8 scale shell, but i did not think this would be the case with the GG1.

cheers...gary
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Re: GG1 in large scale?

Post by ccvstmr »

...to accommodate an 1/8" of side play on each side of the frame is a trivial issue compared to how to pack all the needed hardware inside the body of a GG-1 type loco. Whether the body is 1.6 or 1.7" scale is again, a trivial matter. There's nothing wrong with the extra space and it won't throw the proportions off that much. The loco is big enough as it is...in any scale!

If the body has any kind of interior superstructure...space gets used up quickly. 1st consideration then becomes...axle hung motors or single motor with gear boxes and chains. Thereafter, you have to figure out how to pack the controller and other equipment (air brake hardware and reservoir) in the loco nose and "cheek" areas while leaving the space in the main part of the body for batteries. As well as...will you be running a 24, 36 or 48 volt system. More batteries means more weight means more space needed.

The truck-to-truck connection point needs to be considered as the trucks need to move independent to one another...in all directions. And therefore, however the body is mounted to the trucks also needs to allow for varying motion in all directions. Re-railing...could become a problem. Worst case... disconnect and unload the batteries to reduce the weight to get the loco back on the rail head (consider carrying loco lifters or re-railing equipment on your train).

If there one item I would caution people about taking on such a project...DON'T use PVC materials to build up the main frames and pilot truck frames. There are better ways to simulate the back-to-back 4-6-0 wheel arrangement.

It will be an interesting project for sure if someone is looking to make a production run of these. I'd say it's a safe bet the finish product is going to be pricey. Carl B.
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