Prototype Narrow Gauge ties

[FLSTEAM]

Does anyone have an idea of what size 3 ft. prototype narrow gauge ties are?

John B.

[GregE]

I just read this yesterday in the Norwood book on the Rio Grande...
He notes that for the line from Denver to Colorado Springs they specified 6" face, 6" thick and 6-1/2' long, laid 2,640 to the mile.

[FLSTEAM]

Nice info. Thanks

JB

[Glenn Brooks]

George Hilton, in "Narrow Gauge Rail Roads" reports early narrow gauge practice (first NG convention of 1878) included 30 # rail with 6' ties, having dimensions of 5'' x7" at 2 foot intervals, or alternatively 6" x 6" . However, these were meant for service with very light locomotives - in the 11- 13 ton range. As NG locomotives became heavier, Hilton reports these small ties ( and rail) proved inadequate. By 1882, NG practice had shifted to using 6" x 8" ties, 6 feet long. When 30 ton engines appeared on NG roads, rail size also increased, from 36 # rail to 52# rail. Then again after the turn on the century, the Denver and Rio Grande, relaid its main line with 70 pound rail - presumably with standard gauge tie size. So it appears, NG tie size runs the gauntlet from 5x6" up to standard gauge size, depending on the time period you are in interested in.

Hilton also mentioned the D&RG 70 ton Mikado K-27 were apparently prone to continual derailment with small ties and small rail, and it wasnt until they relaid the main line section between Chama andDurango in 1923, that the K -27 Mikado's were allowed to operate along the full length of the RR.

Also, Hilton makes the point that NG practice was initially premised on light grading, minimal ballasting and terrain following routes, in lieu of cut and fill methods. As a result, the road beds failed prematurely or caused excessive maintenance and safety costs - resulting in high numbers of derailments, and significant road bed upgrades to near standard gauge practice.

[Marty_Knox]

At the Huckleberry we bought 6" x 8" x 6'6".

[Glenn Brooks]

Marty, how much ballast do you put underneath your ties these days?

Thanks
Glenn B.

[Marty_Knox]

Marty, how much ballast do you put underneath your ties these days?

Thanks
Glenn B.

Glenn, I retired 8 years ago. Last major surfacing program, we dropped 4" of ballast, did two - 2" lifts. There was probably between 2 and 6" of existing ballast. Varied considerably over the length of the railroad. The majority of the mainline had been a railroad for 100 years.

[Glenn Brooks]

Thanks Marty, very helpful. I am just getting ready to lay down some 12" ga track - 12# rail. My ties are both full dimensional 4x4, and some older 4x6 stuff, on 18" centers when I pulled them from the prior owners site. I am thinking of starting out with 3" ballast- 5/8" minus probably.

[Mike Walsh]

Glenn,
If you ever want to visit the WF&P railroad in St. Louis MO, drop me a line.

I help maintain the motive power fleet and typically lead major rebuilds, but help with daily maintenance.

We run every Sunday until the end of October, and that's it until May '16...

Mike

[Glenn Brooks]

Thanks, Mike. I have always wanted to visit, but we are in the Seattle area, so not within driving distance unfortunately.

I am trying to figure out how to turn some flanges on 6" wheels. Can you advise what tooling the WF&P uses to shape your flanges?

Thanks much
Glenn