Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

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RichD
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Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by RichD »

Turnout Electric Switch Actuators ?
We are looking for ideas/options for motorizing 7-1/2 Ga switches.
A simple momentary polarity reversal scheme would work well with DC motors.
Has anyone tried/used auto power door lock actuators?
These are an inexpensive linear control somewhat sealed for harsh environment and
should have sufficient force to move points although a toggle/detent device will be needed
to hold position, posing another need for suggestions.
Surely someone has experience with these.
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Oilcan
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Re: Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by Oilcan »

Rich:

Steve Vitkovitz wrote an article on linear turnout actuators that his club is using. It was just published in the September-October 2015 issue of LSOR describing what they used and their results. Let me know if you cannot get ahold of a copy.

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ccvstmr
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Re: Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by ccvstmr »

Rich,
My first comment would be...if you can avoid electric switch motors...do that. Use a high (manual) switch stand instead. The only time you might consider an electric switch motor is with track configurations that don't lend themselves well to running long reach rods.

Having said that, ILS (the Illinois LS) has (2) electric switch motors in service. The prototype was in service for some 6 years before the final design was refined and duplicated. I built 2 motor enclosures + one spare. So far, the spare has never been needed. One possible draw back...is the 12 volt, high torque gear motor uses plastic gears. Once again, these have not been a problem so far.

There are (3) limit switches in the motor enclosure that bear against a cam. The cam has a front and rear section. The front section has (2) detents, 180 degrees apart for the limit switch that control motor rotation. The rear section has (1) detent, in line with one of the front detents that controls either of (2) limit switches to display the point position. Is this full proof? No...as the display indicates motor position...not point position should there be a connecting linkage failure. Comes down to...how much trouble do you want to go thru...and at what expense (and time)?

Other criteria (in no particular order)...no PVC or steel enclosures. I had access to several 6x6x4 stainless boxes with clasps instead of a hinge pin. Other materials had to be brass, stainless, alum. or black nylon. Crank shaft had to be same height above ties as our manual switch throws...1/2". Enclosure had to be vented. Enclosure had to have waterproof "local" push button (to avoid walking back and forth to the remote activation switch). I'm sure there were a few other issues that aren't coming to mind right now.

Here's some photos of the box interior and the track side arrangement. Hope this gives you some alternative ideas. Carl B.
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Re: Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by dnevil »

Rich,

The Annetta Valley & Western Railroad just replaced three problematic electric turnout controls with a completely pneumatic system early this year. So far it is working very well. This is the approach to the station near the steaming bays, so we didn't have to run air very far.

Remote locations could use an air tank. See the last page of this article:

http://www.preclass.com/TSL/WORDPRESS/Goleta.pdf

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Powered Turnouts

Post by Steggy »

I say avoid powered turnouts unless there really is no alternative. They represent more things to maintain and repair.

Having said that, I would not use anything automotive for the actuating means, as the cost to replace it when (not if) it fails could be considerable, assuming replacement parts are even available when the failure does occur. In my (possibly feeble) mind, the ideal actuator would use a commercial grade gearmotor powered by line power, not 12 volts. Line power is much more trustworthy and opens the door to a wide range of gearmotors with ample power to do the job. Pneumatic actuation is viable only if a reliable source of compressed air is nearby.

Whatever you end up doing, plan for eventual failure and make the mechanism easy to revert to manual operation. There's nothing quite having a critical turnout go out of service during a big meet because the switch machine conked out.
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slsf1060
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Re: Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by slsf1060 »

RichD,

You'll find that the door lock actuator has some big issues to overcome. One, they aren't that powerful. Two, they don't latch in any position, they can be pushed in or out very easily. Three, the electric plug isn't weatherproof. Even though they're exposed to the elements, they're still mostly shielded from rain and sun by the door shell.

See if you can sweet talk a NAPA parts store employee to let you look at one. I don't think that a lock actuator would serve you well. You should be looking for a stepper motor drive that latches at the ends of it's travel. One like ccvstmr is showing with a gear motor is your best bet.
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cbrew
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Re: Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by cbrew »

well, we have been using door lock actuators at PNLS for well over 15 years, and all but one of the originals are still in service, we are in the pacific northwet. they see LOTS of rain, Freezing, Heat and they just keep going.
one this to note tho, you need to find ones that use a rotary assembly, not electro magnet.

as for the latching, we use the "kick" switch system which handles the locking of the points.

I know there is better mouse traps, but this setup as served us well
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.
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slsf1060
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Re: Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by slsf1060 »

cbrew wrote:well, we have been using door lock actuators at PNLS for well over 15 years, and all but one of the originals are still in service, we are in the pacific northwet. they see LOTS of rain, Freezing, Heat and they just keep going.
one this to note tho, you need to find ones that use a rotary assembly, not electro magnet.

as for the latching, we use the "kick" switch system which handles the locking of the points.

I know there is better mouse traps, but this setup as served us well
Can you post a pic? I'd like to see how the points are moved and held in place...
Darren McNeely

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RichD
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Re: Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by RichD »

CBREW,
Please post a picture of the assembly motor & kick switch mechanism. Sounds like just the ticket.
Some of the motor drive actuators spec a 10# force. Should be plenty.
The use of these does need a toggle arrangement, so that is what we are researching now.
Also these will be coupled to our mainline (well over a mile on 12 acres) high switch stands
at high use choke points to increase train throughput. See pic.
A sample motor pulsing circuit was demonstrated today.
BTW, we have a very reliable signal system in use frequently. Electrical problems are no stranger here.
Applying passive protection devices has so far been quite successful.
Thanks for the input thus far.
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cbrew
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Re: Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by cbrew »

RichD wrote:CBREW,
Please post a picture of the assembly motor & kick switch mechanism. Sounds like just the ticket.
Some of the motor drive actuators spec a 10# force. Should be plenty.
The use of these does need a toggle arrangement, so that is what we are researching now.
Also these will be coupled to our mainline (well over a mile on 12 acres) high switch stands
at high use choke points to increase train throughput. See pic.
A sample motor pulsing circuit was demonstrated today.
BTW, we have a very reliable signal system in use frequently. Electrical problems are no stranger here.
Applying passive protection devices has so far been quite successful.
Thanks for the input thus far.
I do not have any pictures of our setup at the moment,
but look here to get the idle of the kick switch latching system.
it works well
the motor is simply attached to the end of the bar
http://ibls.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Turnouts
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Re: Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by 6491 »

Would these work for you? They would have to be more powerful than lock motors. These are the seat adjustment from a Ford Falcon ( I know. a long gone breed in US and only a year left in Aus.)
My plan is to someday build up electric brakes on a passenger carriage.
They would need a bit of sealing but that should not be a problem. Could be stopped anywhere without the need for latching.

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cp4449
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Re: Electric Switch - Door Lock Actuators

Post by cp4449 »

You should contact the signal crew at LALS. We have power switches all over the place.
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