Fire In the Hole! - (Keeping the Fire Going)

[Builder01]

Finally got some soft (bituminous) coal today! It is blacksmith coal from Utah. Thanks to everyone that suggested this would probably be the way to go. I was able to start a fire and keep it going with the softer coal.

Ran my loco on the test stand for at least 45 minutes to an hour. The toughest part was getting it started. I wanted to start it on wood, but, I could never get that to work. Maple is too hard, (would not really light) and bass was too soft (burned up too quickly). So, back to my kerosene soaked and broken up charcoal briquettes. Did not take much after a roaring fire with the briquettes, the soft coal finally caught and started to burn!

I am totally new to this and the experience was so cool. The flames shooting out from the coal was something I have never seen before, burning rocks! In any case, I will get some real lump charcoal for a fire starter. I think Tractor Supply sells it.

Thanks again for everyone's help and suggestions.

David

[kcameron]

David,

It might make a nice display for the FLLS Open House. If you get it further, so much the better. We are trying to improve our 'information displays' for the visitors. Give it a thought.

[Builder01]

Hi Ken,

Yes, no problem, I will bring it. In fact I have brought it to the last several open houses in it's various stages of construction. I usually help load passengers and conduct on the 7-1/4" gauge track, but, last time I ended up answering questions folks had about my locomotive and other things at the 4-3/4" track. Was such fun and look forward to doing it again!

David

[Fender]

Glad to hear that you are having success! Since you already have some anthracite, try mixing in about 25-50% of it in with the soft coal, and I think you'll find that it works just as well as straight soft coal.

[PRR5406]

Delighted!

[Pontiacguy1]

How did you prep your wood? I've found that just about any type of mixed scrap wood works fine. I have successfully used ash, oak, various grades of pine, cherry, walnut, and even a little bit of poplar thrown in there. I Cut it into chunks about 3/4" square to 1" square, and then soak it in kerosene overnight in a small bucket or can. I then shovel that into the firebox up to my running fire depth, or about 1 1/2 to 2" deep. the other thing is that once you get the wood burning good, start adding some light sprinkles of coal pretty quickly. Don't wait until the wood is half-way burned up before you start with a light sprinkling of coal. The goal is to have the wood burn out in about 10-15 minutes, and be totally replaced during that time by burning coal.

I used to use charcoal briquettes smashed up and thrown into the firebox in my 0-4-2 Chloe with a 6X6 grate. I found that when i would run the first lap or so, it didn't steam too well because about half my firebox was still filled with charcoal instead of coal. Charcoal is made/designed to burn slow and put out an even and medium heat for cooking your food. The natural charcoal will undoubtedly work better than the brick type, but I always just used scrap wood from a bunch of other projects that I had, and soaked it in kerosene or diesel fuel.

Main point from this rambling: Experiment with different wood types and different ways of starting the fire until you have a method where you can do it quickly and efficiently with a minimum of time and fuss. Then you will be able to do other things, like lubricating the locomotive, wiping it down, connecting up your lines, etc... while you are building your fire.

[Builder01]

Thanks everyone for the kind words!

Pontiacguy1, I probably cut the wood into pieces much too small, about 3/8" to 1/2" cubes. I did use kerosene, but not overnight. I also had a much thinner layer than what you have recommended. I also probably let the fire burn a bit too long before adding any coal. I will do more experiments with the wood, I would certainly use that in preference to briquettes. I have access to scrap of all the wood types you have mentioned.

Fender, yes, I will experiment with the anthracite and the bituminous mixed together in various proportions. I admit, I did throw in a few scoops of it every now and then after the soft coal finally caught and was really going. There were no bits of the hard coal on the grate or in the ash pan at the end of the session. I guess it all burned in spite of the lousy fireman!

David

[Harold_V]

Fender, yes, I will experiment with the anthracite and the bituminous mixed together in various proportions. I admit, I did throw in a few scoops of it every now and then after the soft coal finally caught and was really going. There were no bits of the hard coal on the grate or in the ash pan at the end of the session. I guess it all burned in spite of the lousy fireman!

I recall that my old friend, Ernie Allen (deceased), used to run a mix of coal and coke, which is far more difficult to ignite and burn than anthracite coal. He enjoyed tremendous success in doing so. Unfortunately, I do not recall the exact ratio of coal to coke, but a 50/50 mix comes to mind.

Harold

[Builder01]

Harold, very interesting! What I have now has been challenging enough. Eventually, I will consider all possibilities.

Thank you!
David

[James Powell]

Electric blower on the stack. Varsol/Paint thinner soaked wood in at the base (I use a 3L container to hold the mixture, so about 2L of wood chopped to smaller than 2x3 & 6" long). Add wood to level with door. Leave one chunk of soaked out, light that on fire, plug the blower in, push the burning lump into the box, close the door. Oil around. Add more wood (dry) as required to keep the box near full. Takes ~20 min to blower working. Once there is ~20 psi, open the blower, pull the electric blower off & put it away. Then, add coal on top of burning mass. You can tell by the smell when the coal has caught, then add more, keeping fire moderately dark. At somewhere around 40 lb, start the engine (before I have a full box of coal), and make sure pump will pump. From there, faffle around until 60-70 lb, then put it into gear & off you go. Anything less than about 60 lb is useless getting out of my driveway, even in bottom. (the driveway is ~1:6 at the top, climbing from the house).

For smaller engines, same sort of procedure. The little wagon is propane fired, and the electric blower I have for it is rather undersized. That means keeping the pressure down at 1-1.5 psi on the burner until you have steam, and more pre-heating of the block before going off. (run the engine for a bit as a stationary plant). It needs ~15 psi propane to keep up with hauling my rather rotund bum around...(might be because I am rather rotund, not anything on the engine's fault !).

(this is taken from Traction Talk, about my big engine- for L, read Quarts...you know, us strange Canadians !). In terms of wood, I use softwood of some kind, usually SPF cut off's, because a 2x4 cut to 6" long then wacked with the hatchet fits nicely. The box on the Fowler is about 4" deep below the door, and 10"x10" grate or so. However, I use the same thing for the 3" diameter vertical boilered plant, but the wood isn't 2x4's !. I find the key is to get just to a little bit of pressure showing before going over to coal, because you typically have a bed of embers burning by that point. I use briquettes at some events, depending on wood availablity- up here you can buy briquettes at Crappy Tire easy enough on the way to an event, but not so much cut up wood, which depends on me having offcuts. One big warning is to use basically anything but gasoline for the soak, as gas is far more likely to go boom than varsol, kerosene or Diesel.

James

[baggo]

Over here we tend to use charcoal for starting the fires in the smaller locos. Break up some decent lumpwood charcoal (not briquettes) into suitable sized pieces and soak in paraffin, BBQ lighter fuel, or similar, overnight. Add a good layer on top of the grate and get that burning well. Then add coal slowly until the fire is how you want it. Personally, I think charcoal is far easier and cleaner to use than wood and gets the fire going a lot quicker. Just make sure that you've burnt off all the charcoal before venturing out on the track though otherwise you will lose steam pressure as charcoal is not very good for maintaining pressure.

John

[Builder01]

Hi James,

No external blower needed for me, as I have a way to use the locos own blower with compressed air, It works quite well.

Understand, the fire hole is only 1-1/2" in diameter, Large lumber is simply not going to fit.

As I got to your third paragraph, it sounded like you were describing a steam tractor, I guessed correctly! It's almost the same as a locomotive, but, not quite. Things like the axle pump will not operate until the loco is actually moving. Pumps on a tractor can probably work as soon as you are able to turn the flywheel.

I am burning coal, so I don't really know what to do with descriptions of how to burn propane. It is interesting though.

Thank you for all of the suggestions, and don't worry, I would never soak anything in gasoline to burn!!

David