Your RR grading methods??

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rkcarguy
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Re: Your RR grading methods??

Post by rkcarguy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:05 pm

I have received some feedback and looked up a lot of info online as well. One guy was grooving his ties to a slightly wider gage and with a little wider grooves to accommodate the rail being curved through the groove. My thought, I just need to make a second tie router fixture with radius guides so I actually am cutting a slight curve into each groove, then mark the tie to the inside of the curve. I'm honestly not worried in the slightest about laying the actual track I'm confident it's going to work well. It is getting the grades right through the elevation changes on my property and working my way through the trees and stumps that I am worried about.
Glenn, one thing I would like to know is your wheel profile on your existing equipment. Even though I'm doing groovy track and you are using rail, as long as the gauge is right and the frogs on my switches and guard rails have enough clearance our equipment should work on each others track.
I'm kind of kicking around using the specs for 15" gage as far as flange size and radius, which is about 5/16" tall and wide, minus the 10* cut, and a 1/8 to 3/16 radius. The 3/8x1 flat bar has one corner that is more rounded, so I have been making sure I install that edge up and in.
I'm kind of stuck with the flat bar rail at this point, I've already got over 200' of it, enough ties made for about 100' of track, and am working on my first turnout.
My gage on my rails has been very consistent at 12.080", probably more variance due to the moisture content of the wood ties than my router fixture.
The other question I do have is if the groovy track guys actually run any taper on the wheels, or if its just a flat surface leading into the flange radius?
I'm thinking that while my rolling stock will benefit from better tracking when empty with a tapered wheel, it could cause traction issues and pre-mature wear on the locomotive wheels as they would have a very very small contact patch. I might be better off having the locomotives wheels without any taper.

Harold_V
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Re: Your RR grading methods??

Post by Harold_V » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:50 pm

The taper of the wheel is what helps keep the device running on center, and also provides the ability of wheels to turn on curves, whereby one wheel must move farther than the opposing wheel. I think I'd think long and hard before making that kind of change.

Just sayin' :wink:

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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steamin10
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Re: Your RR grading methods??

Post by steamin10 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:09 pm

Go with the profile of the wheel as described in the standard. Teh wheels will tend to stay off of the flanges and wear much better overall.

My Da, who was a sutchman/condustor on a steel mill railrod told me about playing a prank on new engineers. The heavy 0-8-8 they had was naturally slippery,, If you laid out 8 peniesy in front of the wheel and snugged it up in the direction of travel, it was always good for a wheel slip as it had to mash the pennies and would not lift up and roll over them. It acted like a bearng until the penny pinched down. It resulted in a hole blown in the fire bed too. The contact area n those engines were about the size of a nickle for each driver, and it didnt change except for wheel wear. Some wheels would match the curve of the rail head, and that made for a rough riding engine as it hunted around for its feet in the yard trackage. I would suggest to you that flat profile wheels are a bad idea. The physics are the same. I made some flat wheels for 1.5 and they hunted and climbed rails at speed, so I wont do that again.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
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rkcarguy
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Re: Your RR grading methods??

Post by rkcarguy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:22 pm

Harold, I understand that. Looking at real rail and real RR wheel contact area's, the rail has a crown on it, such that the taper of wheel meets the rail about 1/3rd of the way in from the inner rail edge. The edges of flat bar are pretty flat, a tapered wheel is going to be right on the inner edge of the bar even using a bar with radius corners. Unfortunately I haven't seen the ultra poorly made flat bar with the nearly half round edges for a decade now, that would be prime for this purpose. I even asked my local steel vendor about that and they remember it being a poorly made flat bar from overseas and they haven't seen any like that in years.

Do most of you run the 2-5/6 degree angle?, and that is a maximum angle correct?

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johnpenn74
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Re: Your RR grading methods??

Post by johnpenn74 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:18 am

Ryan,
If you are decided to go the bar stock route, take another look at the forms used that I mentioned earlier. The original forms method done by Charlie was made for building his groovy track RR. Canton Modified the system slightly so it would work with standard section rail. Charlies confguration was done so he could use a sled / squeezing deivce to join the flat bar to the tie. I have a picture of two somewhere... The sled was a two lever affair that would pull down on the top of the rail and up on the bottom of the tie. The magic, is you can move the rails, forms, and even run the trains over it ***before*** you set it in stone.

JP
John Pennington

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Allen 4-4-0 Narrow Gauge Conversion
Reading A5a Camelback 0-4-0
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Clishay
4 Western Wheeled Scraper NG Dump Cars
N&W 4-8-2
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4 Big Four Conversion Gondolas

Like I'm actually gonna build all this stuff :-P

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steamin10
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Re: Your RR grading methods??

Post by steamin10 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:45 pm

Sorry about fat fingers. It was an 0-8-0.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

Berkman
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Re: Your RR grading methods??

Post by Berkman » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:25 pm

Are the forms removed or kept buried under the track?

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Erskine Tramway
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Re: Your RR grading methods??

Post by Erskine Tramway » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:21 am

Hi folks...

I was out of town for a couple weeks and missed a lot of this conversation. Sir Arthur Heywood used frames to lay ballast on the 15" gauge Eaton Railway in 1895. His ballast was cinders. I use a frame to begin my ballasting on my 7-1/2" gauge Erskine Tramway, though not exactly the same way.
6-27-17 ballast frame down.jpg
Here's Sir Arthur's description of how they did it: "At the rail-end four 15 ft. lengths of light timber framing 9 in. deep were laid on the bare formation. A train then backed up with eight wagons of ballast, and on top of them four lengths of rail ready keyed to sleepers (ties). The rails were lifted off alongside where they were to be laid, the "tops" (removable boxes that fit on top of his 4-wheeled wagons) of the wagons were removed and the ballast shovelled off on each side. The train then drew away to refill. The length of framing next the rail-end was lifted forward to the end of the furthest framing, and so consecutively with the other three, thus leaving between the rail end and the fresh laid framing a space of 60 feet with the loose ballast lying thereon. Four men with shovels and four men with rammers then put the ballast in shape and rammed it solid, and also true to a level given by the engineer. The rails and sleepers were next lifted into place, and fish plates affixed. The sleepers next the joints were temporarily packed (tamped), by which time a fresh train had arrived." He goes on, but you get the idea. His frames would have been to 15" gauge, so that the cars could run on them.

Here's one of the 1895 Eaton Railway sleepers I just received as a gift from a friend in England. For scale, it's 36" long and 6-1/2" wide, hollow underneath, supposed to weigh 28 pounds, though I didn't weigh it :lol:
6-30-18 ER 1895A sleeper.jpg
Mike
Former Locomotive Engineer and Designer, Sandley Light Railway Equipment Works, Inc. and Riverside & Great Northern Railway 1962-77
BN RR Locomotive Engineer 1977-2014, Retired

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BudBudzien
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Re: Your RR grading methods??

Post by BudBudzien » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:38 am

We used to spray a soil sterilent (sp?) once a year. As Bob used to say:"That stuff will kill rocks!" Got it at Blain's Farm & Fleet, no prescription required, at least then.

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BudBudzien
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Re: Your RR grading methods??

Post by BudBudzien » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:28 am

Roto-Till the route twice as wide as your track.
Rake all the fines and growth to one side.
Roto-Till again.
Rake these fines to the other side.
Repeat till you get deep enough to lay a 4" perforated drain tile.( Notice, you are not digging hard dirt)
Form both sides as an embankment and seed with grass. Keep slopes mow-able.
Spray trench with soil sterilant.
Lay ground cloth in trench to save your ballast from contamination by surrounding soil.
Lay 4 " diameter perforated drain tile along the length of the route. Exit it from the alignment to grade at low spots ( culvert, bridges, etc).
Fill trench, burying the tile, with 3/8" washed Limestone chips to just short of the top of the 2 berms.
Lay track ( I would now use a solid plastic tie if I could find it).
Ballast, level, align, and tamp the track.
Put train on the track and enjoy!

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