Surveying techniques?

This forum is dedicated to Riding Scale Railroading with propulsion using other than steam (Hydraulics, diesel engines, gas engines, electric motors, hybrid etc.)

Moderator: Harold_V

User avatar
Atkinson_Railroad
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:27 pm
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: Surveying techniques?

Post by Atkinson_Railroad »

Forum conversations sure take on a life of their own. It went from surveying to, “who and what… to… I can pull…”

I’m chuckling at John Brock’s comment at the very beginning of this thread about making a career out of [this].

Sound wisdom as always from Mike and his Erskine Tramway. (Awesome Railroad.)

Agree with Glenn. Photos will authenticate the discussion.

Good call on the drainage, runoff issue that chiloquinruss brings up.

Water will claim its place when it happens… and it’s not easy to judge –just – where –that will happen until it does.

And, an observation. Don’t be embarrassed about using a carpenter’s level.

John
Attachments
scan0020.jpg
stickfigure
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:31 pm
Location: California

Re: Surveying techniques?

Post by stickfigure »

Thanks for all the feedback. I suppose this is mostly a 'working' railroad in the sense that it will provide avenues to the interesting far-flung parts of the property without trampling the hillsides with roads or footpaths. I'd love to try building John B's Class A Shay but 99% of the time I'm interested in running some sort of crude battery powered contraption that kids and mechanically-uninclined friends won't destroy.

Grand scales would be amazing but I think I'm already playing above my league at 2.5" to the foot.

Here's a pic of the property and a topo cribbed from google. The shop, dwellings, and "base" is the valley floor. Interesting destinations are mostly the high elevations. There are two seasonal creeks that converge on the property and get significant flow some winters. I'm sure there's room for a nice broad mainline in the valley but that's not where I want to go? I mean, it's pretty easy to walk there. I have this crazy fantasy of a wood-burning hot tub on one of the peaks and filling it by pulling 300 gallons of water up, but what's the practical grade limit for a battery-powered locomotive pulling 2500 lbs of water?
DSCF1999.jpg
topo.png
topo.png (160.09 KiB) Viewed 4417 times
User avatar
Erskine Tramway
Posts: 390
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:13 pm
Location: South Dakota
Contact:

Re: Surveying techniques?

Post by Erskine Tramway »

stickfigure wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:20 am Thanks for all the feedback. I suppose this is mostly a 'working' railroad in the sense that it will provide avenues to the interesting far-flung parts of the property without trampling the hillsides with roads or footpaths. I'd love to try building John B's Class A Shay but 99% of the time I'm interested in running some sort of crude battery powered contraption that kids and mechanically-uninclined friends won't destroy.

Grand scales would be amazing but I think I'm already playing above my league at 2.5" to the foot.

Here's a pic of the property and a topo cribbed from google. The shop, dwellings, and "base" is the valley floor. Interesting destinations are mostly the high elevations. There are two seasonal creeks that converge on the property and get significant flow some winters. I'm sure there's room for a nice broad mainline in the valley but that's not where I want to go? I mean, it's pretty easy to walk there. I have this crazy fantasy of a wood-burning hot tub on one of the peaks and filling it by pulling 300 gallons of water up, but what's the practical grade limit for a battery-powered locomotive pulling 2500 lbs of water?
Hi.....

Aside from our Granddaughter always wanting a ride when she comes down to the house, the Erskine Tramway is a working railroad. I suspect that I may have 2500 pounds of firewood and train in the picture above at 'end-of-track'. I've successfully shoved a trainload of wood up the 2% grade from the Yard to the Car Shed with 'Sparky', without letting the 'magic smoke' out :shock: Sparky has one of 'Ride Trains' Mini Motorcar chassis, with one 350 watt motor, and two-12v batteries. I'm sure that the fellows who've had experience with the larger, scale model, battery engines could give you advice about them. Aside from more adhesion, they'd give you more wheels for braking.

I've always been an 'Air Man', since I worked on the 15" gauge. We had automatic air brakes on the train, which used a commercial semi-truck 'breakaway' valve as a Triple Valve. I was a devoted user of Air right up to the last day I ran on the Big Railroad, much to the Company's consternation :lol:

In keeping your grades reasonable (and I concur that 2% should be your desired max.) distance is your friend. Says the guy who doesn't have to build your track :D For instance, at 2%, if you need to rise 100 feet from the valley to the hot tub, you would need to have about 5000 feet of track. That's about what it would take to get to the top of the ridge East of our house. If you can get enough adhesive weight on your loco, you might want to consider maybe another per-cent of grade, and not taking all 300 gallons uphill at once. That gives you the opportunity to make more trips, and spread the 'fun' out over more time.

Mike
Former Locomotive Engineer and Designer, Sandley Light Railway Equipment Works, Inc. and Riverside & Great Northern Railway 1962-77
BN RR Locomotive Engineer 1977-2014, Retired
rkcarguy
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Surveying techniques?

Post by rkcarguy »

What gage are you thinking of going with? 2-1/2" goes well with 12", but I may be bias:) A wider gage allows more stability, more weight capacity, and in my opinion, more space inside a wide locomotive to "run what you brung" as far as powering it if you are DIY type guy.
My S12 is going to be a gas/hydraulic with individual FWD/N/REV, throttle, loco brakes, and train brakes. Certainly not for kids and rookies. I'm thinking of building a "HUSTLER" that is electric, something more simple for the kids and relatives to use, later on.
Another thought, was if you can get your hands on one of those hydraulic self propelled roto-tillers for a good price, I think it's guts could be used for powering a little 2 axle switcher and you'd have plenty of torque.
If you are more of a buy it and bolt it together type, there are many options in 7-1/2", even a couple 2 axle switchers right here on the forum for sale in the $2800 range.
As far as track is concerned, there is many options. I'm on a budget and opted for homemade "groovy track" style track. Unlike the others who used a dado blade on a table saw, I made a fixture for my hand held router that clamps down a chunk of 2x4, and I run my router down each side of the "guide" and it gives me two slots the correct width apart to press the 3/8x1 flat bar "rail" into. It's very quick, easy, and quite a bit safer than using the table saw. I purchased 80' of the flat bar to play with to start, and it cost about 52 cents a foot, almost half that of any other rail out there.
I just use a plain 3/8" straight router bit from Grizzly tools, and it actually cuts a little undersize, which makes it perfect as the flat bar taps in with a rubber mallet, then I walk on it to make sure the rails are fully seated. I make my grooves 7/16" deep.
The hardest part is, you've got to come up with an accurate way to drill the joiner holes in the ends of the flat bar, and make slotted joiners so the rail can expand/contract. I'll be having mine laser cut with the slots in them.
Post Reply