The aftermath from the runaway.

[steamin10]

Strr, you make some interesting points. However, I dont agree with the mistique you apply to radio controls.

Simple rados like that of RC Airplanes all share the same shortcomings of frequency strength, overcoming interferance, (background noise) As batteries go down in power they are less selective and less sensative to inputs. Basic Radio stuff, I dont have to explain it, It is pretty simple.

On Crane and locomotive remotes, it is a highly restricted computer checklist, before anything happens. This is right out of the Catron book.
The frequency is selected for band width, and matched to the control. It is a digital encoded signal that is running all the time the control and reciever is powered up. This is 'talkback'. The control reads the inputs from the operator station, and compares it to the last Qualifying set, the input string, If it senses a change on any control it puts that change into hold and waits for the change to be confirmed. If it is confirmed by ( this can vary) another set (2-3) of matched changes, then the outputs set themselves to a new state. This all happens, and the control rates on our cranes were 1/4 second updates for function. The biggest problems we had were bad reception picking up RF from other sources, like CB from trucks splashing the channel, with noise, and power fluxes , that would set the watchdog off, and lockout a function, that did not respond correctly.

I dont like RC for trains and cranes. I dont trust them. In industry, it took men from an elevated cab, and put them next to the load, handling blocks and whatnot, where they are physically exposed to dangers of handling the lift. In 78 my Bud lost his brother because a remote locomotive hit a ladle car at too high a speed, ( because the engineer was tooo far away to have good vision) and got splashed with molten steel. You cant fix stupid.

RC planes that lose signal, crash. What will a model train do?

[STRR]

Big Dave,

I have no experience with the current remote loco systems other than to watch them going back and forth in the yards.

Your statements about crane controls is pretty much as I understand it. More or less continuous feedback loops confirming the commands and actions. Thus my "reaching" for a conclusion to the problems. I know the techs. were seriously confused when the problems persisted when everything was operating as it was designed to.

My point, as I am sure you are aware, was/is even with the best of systems, we still need to have a fail safe system (if we possibly can) to protect us, our friends, our equipment, and our hobby's reputation.

Sorry to hear about your friend's brother.

Terry

[steamin10]

Chuck, Dave, and Dave, We looked like triplet linebackers. The loss of his brother Dave back then was very stark, against the backdrop of progress. Thanks for your thought. I didnt want to play'Ain't it awful'

Like most things, I think the hobbie autto be hand operated. Othewise put the disc in the computer and run Rail Barron, or Car races, or Guitar hero.

It may sound rediculous to you and I, but so many do just that , and feel accomplished and confident. I would challenge them to change a tire without mumbles and groans.

No, Electric lokeys with a hand box, can be built to go 'off' if the cord plug is pulled for any reason, a breakaway, or putting things in the shed. An off switch is just another loop in-out of the plug that kills control power. I can envision all sorts of nonfail tricks.

I disable the seat switches and power saw dumb thumb things. It has to be convenient to work good or it will be bypassed by any Joe Avg. I guess that is my bottom line. I function by the KISS rule. Keep It Simple Stupid.

As far as RC is concerned, it is my opinion it is not reliable in simpler forms for the job at hand. Catron, and other tech controls are well beyond the average person, and because of size and expense, most impractical. This is not a complex argument, yet just having safty chains, that look out of place, can raise a storm in discussions. A drawbar is not a substitute for a 2nd system for safty, period. But then that is why discussions are so lively, and elements of truth come out regardless of the motives and outcomes. If you visit a track, it is rude to tell them they are full of it, this is what I do. Comply graciously, and enjoy what others have built, and wonder at the other locos and things there. I keep it light, and fun, or I'll go build ship models, or polish my boat. Enough already.

[bcody]

All: I agree with Big Dave. No matter how many safety systems you put on an item some idiot will figure a way around them. Look at how many still refuse to wear a seat belt when they are in a car. On my MCC GE Dash 9 I can't start the engine unless the hand control is plugged in. If the hand control or any connectors between it and the engine become disconnected the gas engine and the loco stop immediately. Bill

[Bruce_Mowbray]

I feel that a "hands off the controller and everything stops" system would be a good idea. Whether it is RC or tethered. Although, even operators can panic and just keep the button pressed not remembering that if they let everything go, all would stop. I have witnessed a less than thoughtful (more like brain dead) crane operator smash a full sized passenger car truck w/wheels into a standing fork lift. Not pretty!!. She forgot to let go of the buttons when things got swinging a little and panicked. Duh!!

[Bill Shields]

Not really.

I live very close to one of the largest R/C flying fields in the country and have several neighbors / friends who are flyers.

The flying field is at the south end of a State park.

About 6 years ago, they had several instances of airplanes going out of control and crashing, for none of the usual reasons.

They found that boaters and car jockeys, all running their ground vehicles with aircraft frequencies, were causing inteference with the flying field, which was almost 1/2 mile from where they were running their cars / boats.

Checks with frequency 'sniffers' discovered the interlopers and subsequent driving to the other end of the park found the illegal radios with the same frequencies as the aircraft that crashed.

Since then, the State has banned any R/C equipment from the entire park EXCEPT at the flying field.

What happens is that there are a lot of people that have tried r/c flying, crashed the airplanes, and have radios left over and no desire to try again.

They then sell the radios to anyone that wants them, often for ground use. After all, they aren't ON the flying field, so it won't cause any problems...right?

[6491]

WHY would anyone want to have radio control to run their ride on loco?
What's the point?

[Bill Shields]

I have seen one fellow with a good application.

He has a large steamer that he has trouble getting in and out of club storage.

He has built a little 0-4-0 r/c goat that he uses to pull the steamer out of his storage building and down into the steaming bays.

He walks along side (its very slow), and throws switches, aligns the turntable etc to get the steamer to where it needs to go.

When he is finished with the goat, he sends it back home, along the reverse route, from the steaming bay to the storage sheds until he needs it again.

[AusDan]

ive seen pictures in Aus, with somebody basically sitting on the rear of there train (4 wagons, 2 double headed power units, 5").
So in this would be another example

[srrl5]

WHY would anyone want to have radio control to run their ride on loco?
What's the point?

So you can sit on the back of the train and watch. I usually have someone else run my train so I can watch it.

[Dave_Johnson]

You are still operating the loco, just remotely.

Some operators use remote locos for switching cars around in yard areas.


Dave J.

[mattmason]

I have thought about it for switching my home track so I don't have to keep getting up and down when switching by myself. I was going to retain the cab controls as well for when I run it normally riding behind the motor.