A "True" IC-Electric...?

[Smokey N Steamer]

Most "Regular" full-size diesel locomotives are diesel-electric, meaning the diesel engine drives a generator to power electric motors on the axles. Regardless of this, most one-eighth scale locomotives' drive trains can be described as "internal combustion-hydraulic," "internal combustion-mechanical" or "battery-electric."

I've always had a tendency to want to do things that sound avant-garde to others, and decided that all the "traditional" diesel-outline drivetrains are too unprototypical or unrealistic for my tastes. Instead, I want to try a "true" internal combustion-electric locomotive (obvoiusly there is a practical limit to how much a diesel prime mover can be scaled down). But I want to know--Has anyone attempted to do this before?

[FLSTEAM]

There is an F unit ABBA train set on Discover Live Steam for sale that is exactly that.

John B.

[Oilcan]

Smokey:

Yes, its been tried...and successfully at that. This year at the Train Mountain Triennial, there was a group of outdoor railroaders from Australia that had their locomotives sent up in a cargo container. I know one of the locos had a three-cylinder diesel engine driving a generator to power the electric motors on the trucks. Not only that, the driver (engineer) sat in a very small "cab" at the front of the locomotive. Listening to the engine passing by, you'd swear you were at trackside next to a regular diesel-electric loco. I'll have to see if I can dig out a photo and post it.

Neil

[AusDan]

Been done very successfully in Australia by a few stand out models...and of the last few years becoming quite attainable with small good high amp traction motors (ebay 24v 500W )that can be fitted with in the powered bogie.
I'm in the process of building a petrol-electric using the method described in this link
http://www.smex.net.au/Index.php and go to Home > Reference > Traction Alternators

[RCW]

I have dreamed of just what is proposed in this thread. If I had the money, I think that I would order one of the little Diesels listed on fleaBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-6HP-SMALL-D ... 2a1294b458
Six HP is more than enough power, electric start would be nice, and wouldn't it look good in a 2.5" SP narrow-gauge chassis. Check those engine dimensions, though, if you are looking at 1.5" scale. Sigh!

[WJH]

gas hydraulic remind you too much of a garden tractor?
Those ebay traction motors, would they happen to be from electric scooters?

[ken572]

Smokey,

I found this site that might be of interest.

http://www.gscaleonline.co.uk/DIESEL-ELECTRIC-LOCOS

Ken.

[Dick_Morris]

Check those engine dimensions

It looks like you could relocate the fuel tank and air filter and save upwards of a couple of inches of width.

[Mr Ron]

I have two electric prototype locomotives in 1-1/2" scale operated off batteries, although I've also wanted to use a diesel/electric drive. I just haven't found small diesels that would fit. I've thought about using the small inverter/generators of 2000 watt capacity used by campers. With the housing removed, they might fit inside a 1-1/2" scale engine.

[FLSTEAM]

Here are the F units that are powered by two 125 amp alternators that drive dc motors on each truck.
An 18HP Vanguard drives the alternators.

John B.

[Harlock]

The Aussies have two advantages when making diesel electric working models.

One is that they are modeling meter gauge, which is their standard gauge in some places, so the engines are a lot bigger as they are only a little smaller than our 2.5" gauge engines here. This means more room to shoehorn a small diesel engine in. Most of the Aussie diesels are 'ride in', something I haven't seen done here at all, with the exception below.

Two is that small diesel engines are much easier to come by in countries that are more diesel friendly. Little three cyl diesel engines are common for very small cars and such.

In my own sphere here, the engine I can point to as an example is Mesa Grande Western diesel #1, which used a two cylinder gas APU out of a WWII bomber (I don't know which one at this time) and electric trucks. This is also a larger 'ride in' engine at 3" scale. It is modeled after the SP Narrow Gauge 50 tonner diesel #1 "Little Giant". At 9" gauge it is 1/4 scale.

Unfortunately in the early 90s it was converted to gas hydraulic with a modern engine when the APU became impossible to obtain parts for. The electrical system was also very complicated and mimicked the full size thing in almost every way. Unfortunately it was never documented so it became impossible to maintain after the designer passed on.

Here's some of the Aussie stuff from TM, as well as a picture of the 9" Gauge Mesa Grande Western Diesel in 3" scale.

[Harold_V]

I have two electric prototype locomotives in 1-1/2" scale operated off batteries, although I've also wanted to use a diesel/electric drive. I just haven't found small diesels that would fit.

Unfortunately, that's one of the things that won't scale well. Even if you were successful in finding a small diesel engine, it would operate at speeds much greater than those in full scale locomotives, so the sound created won't come close. That may or may not matter to you, however.

There are alternators built that put out far more amperage than would be required, often at slow speed (think Leece Neville), so that part isn't a problem. Engine power is. The long stroke of diesel engines pretty much dictates that the engines will be too large to fit in a model locomotive unless it is fairly large scale.

Harold