I’ve recently joined the riding scale train group, with the purchase of some Plum Cove studio equipment. Really fun to operate! My next goal is to get a live steam engine. The question is: used or new?
I know there are a ton of options and situations to look at, but at a base question, what would be a good direction. I have little to no actual metal working tools but do have the normal garage, home repair equipment. No mill, no lathe, no welding, etc. I also don’t have any plans on building my own engine…just yet. I’ve joined the local club and do have some contacts with fixing stuff, but none of the group are too close to my house. But that’s not a big issue.
Just seeing what others thoughts are. I see the online listings of equipment, but not sure about how much work an engine may require to get up and running or keep running, vs. getting something turnkey (or bolt together) from one of the great suppliers out there.
Thank you for the information and words of wisdom.
Mike O’Neill
Parker, CO
Steam engine purchase...new or used?
Moderator: Harold_V
Re: Steam engine purchase...new or used?
Mike
I am sure others will chime in here but a lot depends on how careful you are about looking at used equipment. I bought an Atlantic several years back that I could see ( or in this case not see ) the boiler was in need of replacement. On the removal of the boiler it was in much worse shape than I even thought. No big deal since I was planning on the replacement. But If you run into some unknow problems you could be in trouble.
That being said, If you have people in your club that have knowledge of a prospective engine you are looking at and most important how well the engine was maintained then there is a much better chance of getting an engine you can live with.
John B.
I am sure others will chime in here but a lot depends on how careful you are about looking at used equipment. I bought an Atlantic several years back that I could see ( or in this case not see ) the boiler was in need of replacement. On the removal of the boiler it was in much worse shape than I even thought. No big deal since I was planning on the replacement. But If you run into some unknow problems you could be in trouble.
That being said, If you have people in your club that have knowledge of a prospective engine you are looking at and most important how well the engine was maintained then there is a much better chance of getting an engine you can live with.
John B.
Re: Steam engine purchase...new or used?
Mike:
You ask a question that only you can answer.
My suggestion would be to get very active in your club, run the hell out of your electric and keep your eyes and ears open. Learn all you can about steamers and only then, start looking for a steamer to buy. With luck you might even get some throttle time on a steamer at your club.
I have purchased four or five steamers over the years. I like to get basket cases and bring them back to life for resale. I have a small machine shop at my home but I am not a machinist. My last purchase was about a month ago when I purchased a coal fired Invicta loco and train, not a basket case. I'm in the process of converting it to propane as I don't do coal, too dangerous out here in the west, causes too many fires. My plan is to keep this one as I can carry the loco, tender and two riding cars in my Toyota Prius. I also have a Bill Conner 4+4 Beam Engine and three riding cars for carrying passengers at the Sacramento Valley Live Steamer's track. The Invicta is for visiting when I want to take my Prius.
Are there any reputable steam loco builders out there? I would assume there are but since I haven't looked I don't know. I do know one builder in my local group, Steve Alley, who builds 3 truck Shays to order using Ken Shroeder's castings. Steve advertises in LSOR. Not sure but I think he charges about $35,000 RTR. I've seen his engines and they look excellent and run like a watch. You can order either propane or oil fired.
Back to your question. Look, learn and then consider what to do. Buying a steam loco is not a minor decision, it is a major purchase that you will have to live with for a number of years. Like the old bit about carpenters - measure twice and cut once. Make the right decision the first time.
Bill
You ask a question that only you can answer.
My suggestion would be to get very active in your club, run the hell out of your electric and keep your eyes and ears open. Learn all you can about steamers and only then, start looking for a steamer to buy. With luck you might even get some throttle time on a steamer at your club.
I have purchased four or five steamers over the years. I like to get basket cases and bring them back to life for resale. I have a small machine shop at my home but I am not a machinist. My last purchase was about a month ago when I purchased a coal fired Invicta loco and train, not a basket case. I'm in the process of converting it to propane as I don't do coal, too dangerous out here in the west, causes too many fires. My plan is to keep this one as I can carry the loco, tender and two riding cars in my Toyota Prius. I also have a Bill Conner 4+4 Beam Engine and three riding cars for carrying passengers at the Sacramento Valley Live Steamer's track. The Invicta is for visiting when I want to take my Prius.
Are there any reputable steam loco builders out there? I would assume there are but since I haven't looked I don't know. I do know one builder in my local group, Steve Alley, who builds 3 truck Shays to order using Ken Shroeder's castings. Steve advertises in LSOR. Not sure but I think he charges about $35,000 RTR. I've seen his engines and they look excellent and run like a watch. You can order either propane or oil fired.
Back to your question. Look, learn and then consider what to do. Buying a steam loco is not a minor decision, it is a major purchase that you will have to live with for a number of years. Like the old bit about carpenters - measure twice and cut once. Make the right decision the first time.
Bill
Re: Steam engine purchase...new or used?
I think buying a steam locomotive is a lot like buying an airplane.
New airplanes fresh from the factory, or a used airplane with a newly overhauled engine can always be a question mark with manufactured defects which will not be detected right away.
A used airplane that flies a few hours every week, or a live steam locomotive that gets run every weekend, there is no question mark.
Best airplane or locomotive to buy is one where you know the owner, and you know the track history of the equipment. So as others have stated, be an ACTIVE member at a live steam club. Go to ALL the work days, volunteer your time, make friends, you will know about deals before everyone else.
In my personal opinion however, nothing is as rewarding as building your own then getting to run it. If you built it, you will know how to fix it and keep it running better than anyone else.
New airplanes fresh from the factory, or a used airplane with a newly overhauled engine can always be a question mark with manufactured defects which will not be detected right away.
A used airplane that flies a few hours every week, or a live steam locomotive that gets run every weekend, there is no question mark.
Best airplane or locomotive to buy is one where you know the owner, and you know the track history of the equipment. So as others have stated, be an ACTIVE member at a live steam club. Go to ALL the work days, volunteer your time, make friends, you will know about deals before everyone else.
In my personal opinion however, nothing is as rewarding as building your own then getting to run it. If you built it, you will know how to fix it and keep it running better than anyone else.
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Re: Steam engine purchase...new or used?
Some may suggest that you purchase pre-machined parts in sections and put your own locomotive together. If you do that, just be aware that all of the parts may not be exactly correct, and that you will still have to fit some things together, drill and tap some holes, etc... I worked on a frame and chassis for a friend of mine, all of which was purchased as pre-machined sections. The wheels, axles, crank pins, cylinders, etc... all looked pretty good and went together nicely. The frame, however, had an error in it that was way more than should have been allowed out of the door. 3 of the axle box openings in the frame were fine, but one was about 0.035" oversized, all in one direction. If the main axle is allowed to flop around like that, it will beat out the crankpin bushings and you will also have a very hard time keeping it in time. I would not recommend that you build a locomotive that way.
Best thing to do in my opinion, is to buy a used locomotive, one that can be demonstrated and actually run for you. Once you run it, you can see if it has any issues. Also, ask about the age of the boiler, what type of water was used in it, boiler treatment use, how often it was cleaned out, etc... Just realize that if you buy a used locomotive, even if it runs well, you may have to replace the boiler in 4 or 5 years.
It's a risk either way.
Best thing to do in my opinion, is to buy a used locomotive, one that can be demonstrated and actually run for you. Once you run it, you can see if it has any issues. Also, ask about the age of the boiler, what type of water was used in it, boiler treatment use, how often it was cleaned out, etc... Just realize that if you buy a used locomotive, even if it runs well, you may have to replace the boiler in 4 or 5 years.
It's a risk either way.
Re: Steam engine purchase...new or used?
RB211 wrote:I think buying a steam locomotive is a lot like buying an airplane.
New airplanes fresh from the factory, or a used airplane with a newly overhauled engine can always be a question mark with manufactured defects which will not be detected right away.
A used airplane that flies a few hours every week, or a live steam locomotive that gets run every weekend, there is no question mark.
Best airplane or locomotive to buy is one where you know the owner, and you know the track history of the equipment. So as others have stated, be an ACTIVE member at a live steam club. Go to ALL the work days, volunteer your time, make friends, you will know about deals before everyone else.
In my personal opinion however, nothing is as rewarding as building your own then getting to run it. If you built it, you will know how to fix it and keep it running better than anyone else.
I will second this, i could not have said it better!!
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.
Re: Steam engine purchase...new or used?
Big part is time vs money.
How much money do you have and how much time do you have?
Also, you have no machine tools, so a fixer-upper might be more than you can handle at this point, particularly if you need to make a replacement part that's not an off-the-shelf item. If you have friends with machines that can help out, then you may be covered.
Me, I'd buy a used one and work on it. Haven't got much time, but have even less money
Steve
How much money do you have and how much time do you have?
Also, you have no machine tools, so a fixer-upper might be more than you can handle at this point, particularly if you need to make a replacement part that's not an off-the-shelf item. If you have friends with machines that can help out, then you may be covered.
Me, I'd buy a used one and work on it. Haven't got much time, but have even less money
Steve